41 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I send it to secondary with gel solution and let it sit on the cool basement floor until it goes to a keg and at that point it crashes to 35° or so and then gets force-carbed. Remember that if you're bottling, the beer can look very clear but there will still be plenty of yeast in there for natural carb to form. Very glad to hear that the beer is looking, smelling and tasting good so far. Keep us posted, Lagerman.

[johnpreuss]

Glad it's tasting good, John. Now at this point, I would dry rib it for a week with some baby-back ribs and serve with an Awesome Blossom. You're cracking me up calling me "Chili's" Seriously though, what I do at this point is pull a sample and taste it at room temp, smell it for apple or butter. If it's clean I switch to an "S" airlock and start crashing it at 5°F/day until it's at 32°. Let it sit ~1 week then rack to secondary for a week with gel at 32° and harvest the yeast. Some people like to rack directly to keg with gel. I'm weird, what can I say--I don't like gel in my kegs. When it's clear, I rack to keg and start carbing. Drink when you damned well please. It'll improve for ~1-1.5mths lagering.

 

Sorry about the chilis thing chils.. anyway - Can someone explain to me why you would slowly ramp it down?  I've seen it before on other lager recipes/methods besides your comment here.  Second question, why the "S" airlock?  Is it necessary?  I don't own any, not that I cant run and get one but I don't think my swamper is set up to accomodate the height of that style of airlock.

[Steve Urquell]

Sorry about the chilis thing chils.. anyway - Can someone explain to me why you would slowly ramp it down?  I've seen it before on other lager recipes/methods besides your comment here.  Second question, why the "S" airlock?  Is it necessary?  I don't own any, not that I cant run and get one but I don't think my swamper is set up to accomodate the height of that style of airlock.

No worries on the name thing, it gave me a good laugh and a great new avatar.

Some people say that the yeast have to prepare for storage and the slow chill lets them do that and build up reserves for a healthy restart. Some people just crash it down and report fine results. I re-use my yeast and want to give them all the chance for re-pitch health that I can and I'm in no rush on my beers, so I slowly cool. I wouldn't argue the difference in the 2 with anyone though--slow cooling is just my preference based on what literature I've read. You should do a Google search and form your own opinion on the matter. Kai's site is a good place to start https://braukaiser.c...rmenting_Lagers
As is Noonan's "New Brewing Lager Beer" I've read it cover to cover.

The S-airlock prevents suck-back from chilling the beer. A 3 piece will suck the liquid into the beer as it cools.

[Big Nake]

I don't know the answer to this but my theory is that a beer that fermented at 50° and was then quickly crashed to 35° might not have time to clean up diacetyl, sulphur, etc. I can't see the point if you take a beer that was at 50°, then warm it to 60° for 2-3 days and then the need to lower it by small increments (some people say 2° per day!). I ferment cool, warm it up in the primary, then leave it on the basement floor for possibly weeks, then crash it in a keg and force carb it. Recently the 'slow lowering' of the temp was discussed (I forget which board) but it was pretty much debunked as not necessary... or at least no one could explain why it was necessary, which doesn't mean anything, really.

[Big Nake]

No worries on the name thing, it gave me a good laugh and a great new avatar.

Some people say that the yeast have to prepare for storage and the slow chill lets them do that and build up reserves for a healthy restart. Some people just crash it down and report fine results. I re-use my yeast and want to give them all the chance for re-pitch health that I can and I'm in no rush on my beers, so I slowly cool. I wouldn't argue the difference in the 2 with anyone though--slow cooling is just my preference based on what literature I've read. You should do a Google search and form your own opinion on the matter. Kai's site is a good place to start https://braukaiser.c...rmenting_Lagers
As is Noonan's "New Brewing Lager Beer" I've read it cover to cover.

The S-airlock prevents suck-back from chilling the beer. A 3 piece will suck the liquid into the beer as it cools.

When you say 'restart', are you talking about harvesting and repitching into a different batch? I do that well before the lowering of the temp (taking the yeast from the primary when the d-rest is over and the beer is going to secondary) so the timeline wouldn't line up for me... or I'm just not understanding... very possible.

[Steve Urquell]

When you say 'restart', are you talking about harvesting and repitching into a different batch? I do that well before the lowering of the temp (taking the yeast from the primary when the d-rest is over and the beer is going to secondary) so the timeline wouldn't line up for me... or I'm just not understanding... very possible.

I chill primary before racking to drop as much yeast out as possible before gelling in secondary. My beer has been at 32F for a week before it is racked off the cake and gelled.

[johnpreuss]

Well I found the limits of my modified cooler.... it's around 38dF that I can get it to with the frozen OJ bottles.  So the beer sat at 38 for a week and I racked it onto gel in a secondary.  The beer smelled AMAZING (sorry lager virgin here),  I had to take a sample.  Cold and flat the beer was clean.  No butter,no sulfur, no apple... Nice firm bitterness, backed by some graininess and that yeast characteristic.  It's that flavor that I could not identify except it was the taste that some of my favorite German Lagers have.  I figure I'll let this one sit and lager (as cold as I can get it, but hey, the Germans did this in caves so I doubt it was really 32 degrees historically) for a couple three weeks I think.  That would make 4 weeks of cold conditioning and I'll bottle this one.  Of course I'll sample it first.

[Steve Urquell]

Glad to hear it's coming out well. You are about to fall down the lager rabbit hole.

[johnpreuss]

Glad to hear it's coming out well. You are about to fall down the lager rabbit hole.

 

Call me Alice!  Don't get me wrong, I love my ales but I think it was the combination of good pilsner malt and lager yeast I've been missing on my homebrewing adventure.

[Steve Urquell]

Call me Alice!  Don't get me wrong, I love my ales but I think it was the combination of good pilsner malt and lager yeast I've been missing on my homebrewing adventure.

Try a few clean ale styles with that w34/70 fermented at 58F. APA, IPA, irish red. Damned good.

[Humperdink]

Try a few clean ale styles with that w34/70 fermented at 58F. APA, IPA, irish red. Damned good.

Fan of 34/70 here as well!

[Steve Urquell]

Fan of 34/70 here as well!

I don't think I've used a yeast that's more forgiving of temp fluctuations. I don't think I've fermented a beer with it that sucked. Pretty solid workhorse lager yeast.

[johnpreuss]

Well the rest of my life isn't going to let me let this lager any more.  3 weeks I've let it go, but I'm moving in 10 days so I need to get this going.  So I bottled it today.  The sample was damn tasty.  Very Clean, to use a Kenism - Very Beery. It's going to be a long 3 weeks!!! 

[neddles]

Very Clean, to use a Kenism - Very Beery.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, baby! I like me some beery beer. When you make a beer with something like 830, 2124, 2000, 2001, 2278... you get that beery beer thing. This one I made with 2278 (lagering now for a little over a week) has that character. I also smacked a pack of 2124 this morning and I'm going to make some summer lagers... gold, balanced, beery. Carry on lagerheads.

[johnpreuss]

Here it is.  Not the best picture and definately not the best glass but there it is.

 

[Big Nake]

Looks yummy. Nice head, good clarity, etc. Once you start making & drinking lagers... you may be converted. Could there be a calendar year coming where more of JPs batches are lagers instead of ales!?!?!?!  

[johnpreuss]

Ken I would love to go 50/50 on my batches!

[MyaCullen]

Ken I would love to go 50/50 on my batches!

I am at 2/4 this year

 

nice lager you got there, that's Ken Lenard Clear™

[johnpreuss]

I am at 2/4 this year

 

nice lager you got there, that's Ken Lenard Clear™

 

Ken's secret is out... GEL!!  Amazing stuff.  I suppose the month of cold conditioning didn't hurt either.