47 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

I agree it will not be fruity enough.  If you are really going for HT you need to get the yeast.  Others will be close but it will not give you all you need, IMO.

 

In regards to the miss statement, this was from the HT thread... I am pretty sure I do not want to drink that beer.

 

It was my first time messing with water additions and the EZWaterCalculator had me add 112gms of Gypsum for 12.5 gallons post-boil (60 in the mash, 52 in the sparge water). That gives calcium of 442, Chloride of 77 and Sulfate of 929!? If I'm doing total hardness right, I add Ca with Mg and I still only have 553 TH. Should be interesting when it finishes.. hopefully it's drinkable.

 

yikes!

[matt6150]

I agree it will not be fruity enough.  If you are really going for HT you need to get the yeast.  Others will be close but it will not give you all you need, IMO.

 

In regards to the miss statement, this was from the HT thread... I am pretty sure I do not want to drink that beer.

 

It was my first time messing with water additions and the EZWaterCalculator had me add 112gms of Gypsum for 12.5 gallons post-boil (60 in the mash, 52 in the sparge water). That gives calcium of 442, Chloride of 77 and Sulfate of 929!? If I'm doing total hardness right, I add Ca with Mg and I still only have 553 TH. Should be interesting when it finishes.. hopefully it's drinkable.

Wow and I thought I added a lot of gypsum!

[MyaCullen]

I agree it will not be fruity enough.  If you are really going for HT you need to get the yeast.  Others will be close but it will not give you all you need, IMO.

 

In regards to the miss statement, this was from the HT thread... I am pretty sure I do not want to drink that beer.

 

It was my first time messing with water additions and the EZWaterCalculator had me add 112gms of Gypsum for 12.5 gallons post-boil (60 in the mash, 52 in the sparge water). That gives calcium of 442, Chloride of 77 and Sulfate of 929!? If I'm doing total hardness right, I add Ca with Mg and I still only have 553 TH. Should be interesting when it finishes.. hopefully it's drinkable.

Morebeer apparently has the yeast https://morebeer.com...beer-yeast.html

[HVB]

Morebeer apparently has the yeast https://morebeer.com...beer-yeast.html

Yes,lots of places have it now from various sources.

[positiveContact]

Yes,lots of places have it now from various sources.

 

so is that yeast the real deal?  not a bad price for 200B cells.

[MyaCullen]

so is that yeast the real deal?  not a bad price for 200B cells.

I dunno any more than what that link says

[HVB]

so is that yeast the real deal?  not a bad price for 200B cells.

Yes it is, so are the these:

 

https://www.love2bre...29-p/lyec29.htm

 

https://www.theyeast...cts/vermont-ale

[MyaCullen]

the 200 billion cell pack is very intriguing 

[positiveContact]

The really interesting thing is that 200B cells is enough to ferment a 5 gallon batch of heady clone.  Even a 10 gallon batch would require only a modest starter to step you up to about 341B cells.  This all assuming you buy into the following.  Typically I think 0.75 million cells per mL per degree Plato is the typical suggested pitching rate.

 

https://www.themadfe...-and-yeast.html

 

In his book IPA, Mitch Steele reports that The Alchemist uses a relatively low pitching rate (less than a .5 million cells per ml per degree Plato), fermenting at 68 F for a few days then up to 72 F.

 

Edited by TheGuv, 23 June 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[positiveContact]

I'm probably not dedicated enough to go full on with the HBT recipe (shown below).  For instance - I'm probably not going to buy hop extract.  I'm probably not going to buy pearl malt just for this purpose.  Maris Otter or some other pale ale malt would have to suffice.  caramalt?  probably just use crystal 40.  turbinado sugar?  i guess.  I'd consider just using plain old white sugar.  I don't suspect it would make a big difference in a beer this highly hopped.

 

As to the hops?  I have the columbus and cent.  I'm not sure what amarillo gold is - I'd probably just use amarillo if it's similar.  I might consider picking up simcoe and apollo if they seem like I'd use them in other beers.  I'd def consider buying some of the gigayeast or similar.  As it has been mentioned HT has changed over the years.  I don't think a little variation in the recipe posted on HBT is going to hurt much and might make something just as good or better.  thoughts?

 

 

Batch Size: 5.00 gal Boil Size: 6.47 11lb 4oz Pearl Malt (84.9%)- SRM 2.4 12 oz Caramalt (5.7%)- SRM 17 12 oz White Wheat (5.7%)- SRM 1.7 8 oz Turbinado Sugar (3.8%)- Added at flameout. Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes. Boil Time: 90 min 10.00 ml** *Hopshot- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs 1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs 0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs 2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs 1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs 0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs 0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs 2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs 1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs 0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25. Beer Profile Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 % Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz Est Color: 6.4 SRM

 

[HVB]

Amarillo gold is Amarillo. Hop extract is not that much money and I think worth it to not have a huge bittering charge. Apollo is a good bittering hop and can be used late too in small doses. I use Apollo for most of my bittering now. The grain bill changes will change the beer but not that much,ht is about the hops. If you have some time watch the interview on chop and brew with john kimich (sp) some good info in there.

[neddles]

Were it mine I would not aim for 130+ IBU. I'd probably use my 18.5% Apollo to bitter @60/90 min. to about 70 or 80 IBU. I'm not sure I have ever been able to discern a difference in beers with higher (calculated) IBUs than around 70 or 80 IBU. Maybe that's just me though. 

 

Also I would think in a beer like this most light crystals/caravienne in that color range will get you close enough to the Caramalt if you don't have it on hand.

 

Next I would add all the 5min and 0 min. hops to the whirlpool. I don't think there is anything to gain by boiling them for 5 min. or adding them at 0 min vs. whirlpool steeping.

 

And then I'm not certain I would wait until day 14 to dry hop. My understanding is that this is a pretty low floccing yeast so I suppose there could be some benefit to letting some of it drop for a while after fermentation is done and before dry hopping. (remember, flocculating yeast attracts bittering compounds and hop oils and drags them out of solution) But maybe some hair splitting here. haven't seen any additional benefit to dry hopping for a week or more either. I'd probably go 3 days or so at room temp. for each dry hop.

 

Lastly, I've never had this beer so take what I say with a fat grain of salt!

 

Where did the recipe come from? Was is developed from information given by the brewery?

[HVB]

Were it mine I would not aim for 130+ IBU. I'd probably use my 18.5% Apollo to bitter @60/90 min. to about 70 or 80 IBU. I'm not sure I have ever been able to discern a difference in beers with higher (calculated) IBUs than around 70 or 80 IBU. Maybe that's just me though. 

 

Also I would think in a beer like this most light crystals/caravienne in that color range will get you close enough to the Caramalt if you don't have it on hand.

 

Next I would add all the 5min and 0 min. hops to the whirlpool. I don't think there is anything to gain by boiling them for 5 min. or adding them at 0 min vs. whirlpool steeping.

 

And then I'm not certain I would wait until day 14 to dry hop. My understanding is that this is a pretty low floccing yeast so I suppose there could be some benefit to letting some of it drop for a while after fermentation is done and before dry hopping. (remember, flocculating yeast attracts bittering compounds and hop oils and drags them out of solution) But maybe some hair splitting here. haven't seen any additional benefit to dry hopping for a week or more either. I'd probably go 3 days or so at room temp. for each dry hop.

 

Lastly, I've never had this beer so take what I say with a fat grain of salt!

 

Where did the recipe come from? Was is developed from information given by the brewery?

 

The recipe was created from various informational sources best I can tell.  Some was from the brewery including at least one brewer, interviews and other information teh brewery puts out.  I think if you want to create a hop character like HT the extract is important.  Kimmich mentions in the podcast that no hops touch HT in the boil.  So that indicates all hop extracts and no hops ( pellets) until the whirlpool or maybe hop back.  He also does not use any pumps to move teh wort after the boil, it is all done with CO2 to "protect the hops" as he says.  One other note is that HT is a 28 day beer from brew to can, I have had HT the day after it was canned and IMO it needs a couple more days to become prime.

 

 

.  Maris Otter or some other pale ale malt would have to suffice. 

 

I would not go all MO.  That would be too much.  Maybe a blend of MO and 2-row or MO and pils.  Pearl malt is not like Marris Otter, at least the Fawcett Marris Otter I have and use.

[positiveContact]

I would not go all MO.  That would be too much.  Maybe a blend of MO and 2-row or MO and pils.  Pearl malt is not like Marris Otter, at least the Fawcett Marris Otter I have and use.

 

good to know thanks.  i also have TF MO.

 

have you guys heard anything about the pitching rate that agrees with that link I posted?

[HVB]

good to know thanks.  i also have TF MO.

 

have you guys heard anything about the pitching rate that agrees with that link I posted?

I only have the El Jeffe - Black IPA from the Alchemist recipe handy but that indicates 6-7m cells

 

httpss://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qOOALbdERos/U6lymQ4_NSI/AAAAAAAAE4Q/et4M3pL0INo/w650-h866-no/20130724_062918.jpg

[Poptop]

Drezz, what book are you referencing?

[positiveContact]

so i'm pretty tired right now but that looks to be a pitching rate of 0.4M cells per mL per deg Plato.

 

7 * V = x * 17.5 * V

 

7 = x * 17.5

 

x = 0.4

 

That would be the high end so I guess it agrees.

[HVB]

Drezz, what book are you referencing?

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/1938469003

 

 

so i'm pretty tired right now but that looks to be a pitching rate of 0.4M cells per mL per deg Plato.

 

7 * V = x * 17.5 * V

 

7 = x * 17.5

 

x = 0.4

 

That would be the high end so I guess it agrees.

 

I do a typical pitch rate.  Some have also reported they ferment close to 55 for a time, I will not do that either... lol

 

ETA: try e-mailing them.  I bet they tell you the pitch rate.  He was very quick getting back tome about carbonation of different batches.

Edited by drez77, 24 June 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[positiveContact]

ETA: try e-mailing them.  I bet they tell you the pitch rate.  He was very quick getting back tome about carbonation of different batches.

 

another good idea.

 

out of curiosity how have your attempts turned out?

[HVB]

another good idea.

 

out of curiosity how have your attempts turned out?

Good.  The hops are similar but the beer is not HT.  I did use what I had in stock for grains though and made a few tweaks.  In reality I was not going for a clone but more of an "inspired by"