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Anyone done a Stein beer?


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#1 pods8

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:46 AM

I wanted to years ago and have a few softball sized granite stones I collected in CA back in the day to use and could likely find some more around here too.  If I did it I'd just heat the stones and add to get some heating/boiling and use propane as needed to supplement.  Pondering about reviving this for a fall project.

 

Anyone ever done one?  If so aside from the novelty of it all any thoughts on the beer itself?



#2 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:50 AM

This is the hot rock beer? Neat concept. 



#3 pods8

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:00 AM

Yeah.  Hot rocks to heat/boil but I'd cheat and use propane as needed.  Mainly a few rocks to get the caramelizing effect on them.  Save the rocks and add to a bucket and rock onto them after primary for a bit to let the yeast dissolve that off, then rack off them. 



#4 Big Nake

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:15 AM

I have tasted stein beers and heard of homebrewers who wanted to try one but never actually heard of anyone doing it. If the original intent is to heat the rocks over fire and then drop them into the wort, you would need A LOT of big rocks and you would need to rotate them, etc. I know pods8 said he would use propane too so I get that you don't have to keep the boil going with hot rocks. Otherwise, I guess I don't understand if the rocks are supposed to lend something other than heat.There is a BYO article HERE and also a video (which is actually a bunch of stills)...httpss://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF5xMI73wxA

#5 pods8

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:48 AM

Otherwise, I guess I don't understand if the rocks are supposed to lend something other than heat.

 

The sugar in the wort supposedly caramelizes on the rocks, not sure how much dissolves off during the remainder of the boil but they talk about hanging onto some of the rocks and added them to secondary and let the rest of the sugar be dissolved off.  So I presume you'd get a caramel notes from them and perhaps something smokey?  Moreso my question is what did folks get from it if anyone did it.



#6 Big Nake

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

The sugar in the wort supposedly caramelizes on the rocks, not sure how much dissolves off during the remainder of the boil but they talk about hanging onto some of the rocks and added them to secondary and let the rest of the sugar be dissolved off.  So I presume you'd get a caramel notes from them and perhaps something smokey?  Moreso my question is what did folks get from it if anyone did it.

The one I tasted was commercial (Riverwest Stein Beer by Lakefront in Milwaukee) and it was brown-amber and on the malty side (a bit like a Vienna maybe). I don't remember there being smoke but I could see it if rocks were heated over fire and added directly to the wort. The process they used in the video with the 'fryer basket' type thing is good because once the rocks had been in the kettle for x amount of time, remove the basket, place those wort-covered rocks back into the fire and grab (not literally) new hot rocks and put those into the kettle. Sounds easier than it probably is and I'll say this... if this beer comes out REALLY good and people tell you to make it again, you're in for A LOT of work! :P Keep us posted because I would like to know how the finished beer comes out. I'm going up to the Northwoods of Wisconsin at the end of the week and I usually find big rocks all over and I ... ahem... borrow a few and use them for landscaping. Maybe I'll take some and use them for Stein Beer instead.

#7 denny

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

I helped a friend do one and learned a couple valuable lessons...1. don't get your rocks from a river unless you want them to explode in the fire.  2. don't do it using the fireplace in a room with white carpet.  It's unreal how much the wort boils up when you add the stones.



#8 pods8

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:10 PM

The one I tasted was commercial (Riverwest Stein Beer by Lakefront in Milwaukee) and it was brown-amber and on the malty side (a bit like a Vienna maybe). I don't remember there being smoke but I could see it if rocks were heated over fire and added directly to the wort. The process they used in the video with the 'fryer basket' type thing is good because once the rocks had been in the kettle for x amount of time, remove the basket, place those wort-covered rocks back into the fire and grab (not literally) new hot rocks and put those into the kettle. Sounds easier than it probably is and I'll say this... if this beer comes out REALLY good and people tell you to make it again, you're in for A LOT of work! :P Keep us posted because I would like to know how the finished beer comes out. I'm going up to the Northwoods of Wisconsin at the end of the week and I usually find big rocks all over and I ... ahem... borrow a few and use them for landscaping. Maybe I'll take some and use them for Stein Beer instead.

 

I'd be concerned on reheating the rocks personally, do we know that part gets done?  I'd think you'd get burn sugar at that point or maybe it all burns off completely in the fire?

 

I could see either using a basket or using some SS wire to make a craddle with a loop off each rock to hook it by and drop it in.

I helped a friend do one and learned a couple valuable lessons...1. don't get your rocks from a river unless you want them to explode in the fire.  2. don't do it using the fireplace in a room with white carpet.  It's unreal how much the wort boils up when you add the stones.

 

1) I know that part from saunas already.

2) That is just comical.

 

Results?


Edited by pods8, 15 July 2014 - 12:10 PM.


#9 denny

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:20 PM

Results were it was a decent beer and a fun day...I didn't have to clean the carpet!  But not enough of either to ever make me want to try it again.



#10 Big Nake

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

This is usually a lager too, correct?



#11 dmtaylor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

I have heard that the Green Bay Rackers have made a steinbier or two.  Unfortunately I am not a member there and am not privy to how they did it or how it turned out.  I just heard that they've tried it.  Might be worth an inquiry if you know anyone there.

 

To my knowledge, Riverwest Stein Beer by Lakefront Brewing is a steinbier in name only, I don't think they use hot rocks... but I could be wrong.

 

Guess I'm not much help.  One thing I can say is to confirm that based on what I've heard, it is a Vienna/Oktoberfest style beer, just that it uses hot rocks for all the boiling.  Again, Riverwest is in name only... they use a buttload of hops, so style-wise it falls someplace between Vienna and APA.  Not too far different from a Sam Adams Boston Lager, really.  Or an "International Amber Lager" per the drafted 2014 BJCP.  Or a "Czech Amber Lager" with German hops instead of Saaz.

 

I'd love to brew a more traditional version sometime.  I understand the concept and have ideas on how to do it, but probably never will do it myself, maybe only if my club wants to give it a shot.  Better know your rocks before you try brewing one so they don't explode on you, and lower them in somehow to avoid splashing.  Also account for the volume of the rocks in the kettle, i.e., only fill the kettle like 1/3 to 1/2 with wort, to leave room for all them hot rocks.  Safety equipment and keeping your distance would be very wise.


Edited by dmtaylor, 15 July 2014 - 12:34 PM.


#12 pods8

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

This is usually a lager too, correct?

 

I don't know that is has to be but being german origin I think many (most?) examples are. 



#13 dmtaylor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:04 PM

Yep.



#14 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

Sounds like a fun fall project for a club.



#15 2ndstage

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

I do one about every fall.  Takes a lot of hands to make it work.  I got all my rock from a granite shop.  They let me have the pick of whatever I wanted from the cutoff bins.  I make 2 fires.  1 for heating rocks and 2 for rocks that just came out.  Worked out better than using one fire.  

 

A nice set of tongs is pretty important to get the rocks out of the fire safely.  To put them in the wort I use a turker fryer basket.  Be prepared for massive boil off.  Its always surprising just how long the rocks will keep the wort boiling.  Keep the last set of rocks and put them in the freezer after cooling off and then put in your fermenter to let the yeast work on all that carmelized wort.  

 

Makes for a fun brewday, its an interesting project.  As said it best with a club doing this.  I would not do it without at least 4-5 people to help at the minimum.



#16 Big Nake

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:00 AM

So does the beer end up with some smoke in the flavor or no?

#17 pods8

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:03 AM

Well how does it turn out????  What are your thoughts on the contributions? What base beer do you use, etc.?

 

Also could you clarify what happens to the caramelized wort on the rocks that are reheated, does it just incinerate off or is there burnt residue?

 

 

If this occurs the scope could certainly be ramped up to make it a group deal but my base idea was just heating a few rocks and tossing them in for some effect and saving them for the secondary so it should be do able solo if needed. 



#18 ChefLamont

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:24 AM

When I went to the NHC in Minneapolis a few years ago, there was a talk on Steinbier and they had one they made.  It was an interesting talk and a well made beer.  To me the smoke/fire charastic came through only slightly and it was complimentary. The beer was a little malty and caramelly from the rocks being put back in the the beer later to dissolve the caramel goodness that they got during boiling.

 

 

I appreciate the hard work that went into it, but my honest opinion on it is it something to maybe try once.  Also, it would be a good "event" brew for a bunch of brewers.  However, I dont see the effort being really worth it overall.

 

Just my opinion.



#19 pods8

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:59 AM

I appreciate the hard work that went into it, but my honest opinion on it is it something to maybe try once.  Also, it would be a good "event" brew for a bunch of brewers.  However, I dont see the effort being really worth it overall.

 

For the reduced scope I'm discussing I don't see it as a major hassle, just gotta make a fire on the side while generally brewing to heat up a load of rocks.  Add them to get "some" effect of hot rock cramalization on the liquid wort and also a layer on the rocks.  I was thinking some stainless wire around the rocks with a loop around the rocks to easily hook them and drop into the wort.  In my case I could just get a hot bed of coals going in the base of my WSM smoker while I mash in, toss in the rocks to heat them during the sparge/boil, add them late in the boil.

 

There was youtube video of Lost Abbey doing a steinbeir similarly.  They have some sankes with holes punched in them filled with granite, they heat these on a propane burner (they can hit 600F with their setup), then fork truck them into an open top tank and pump in the wort that has already had its primary boil for a secondary hot rock boil/carmalizing.  Generally that is what I'd do on a small scale as opposed to an elaborate session of lots of rocks/heating/boiling with just rocks.

 

httpss://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOjud9SoXyk



#20 matt6150

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

Well oddly enough the day after this thread is started I get a email stating that a local club is hosting a large brew day in Oct. were he will be brewing a chipotle kahlua stout using the stein beer process. Sounds like it should be a good time. He said the after the beer is brewed the fire/party will continue until early morning and to bring a tent. May just have to make it to this one.




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