41 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

All good points Ken.  Maybe you came on so strong they feared your rapier like wit, talent and love for the brewing process   However only knowing you as a Brew Brother and what you contribute to all of us, I can only assume you conducted yourself as a gentleman and asked humble intelligent questions.

Lulz. I asked general questions hoping the guide would expand but he really didn't want to go there. Some of my buds told me that Dan Carey used to lead the tours and that he would answer all questions. My first thought was, "I'm finally going to figure out which 5 hops are in Moon Man!" but when we got there, we were told that Dan & Deb were busy planning a Christmas party for the employees that day. Bummer. I did walk past Dan's office and he was in there. After the tour they took us to their tasting room and I went to hit the bathroom around the corner and I saw Deb standing in the hallway with her dog. I recognized her from the video. I spoke with her for a couple minutes and that was it. I do like their beers and I like their brewery and business model. They take good care of their employees and there is a great vibe in the brewery and the town. You can walk into any one of the taverns in town and there are 8 tap handles, all New Glarus. We went to the New Glarus Hotel one night where we were probably the youngest people by about 20 or 30 years. Old guys would walk in and talk to the beertender (an old guy) and say, "Hey Steve, I'll have Two Women & Totally Naked!" (Two of their beer names) and big laughs all around the circular bar. Hilarious.

[Poptop]

Sounds like a really cool place

[Big Nake]

No I didn't try to contact them. I wasn't that motivated to actually try to recreate their beer. Once I figured out how to get a similar malt flavor I was content.   I did email a small brewery in Madison about a beer I had there a few weeks ago. Shared a lot of nice words about their beer and the great food I had when I was there. I haven't heard anything back. I will resend soon. Similar situation, trying to figure out how they got a particular malt profile in a pale ale of theirs.   ETA: BTW I mashed this beer at 156F and not 154F as stated above if anyone GAF. Finished at 1.013

Ettels: We've talked about mash temp before and I know that everyone's system is different but 156° for your mash temp seems high to get down to 1.013. Are you sure that your thermo is accurate on your mash? Seems like many brewers are mashing lower to avoid overly sweet beers but again... style dictates and I know that thermos are all over the place. I can't remember the last time I mashed over 152°. Many suggest that a couple degrees here or there won't matter but I make simpler beers so maybe it's easier to tell the difference.

[HVB]

. I hear that the Careys (Deb and Dan) were never homebrewers so maybe they don't have that connection like some other brewers.

When Dan was on the BN for an interview he went on that he would not give out his recipes to his beers because(something like this) it made no sense to brew his beer when you can buy it.  He said you should brew the beer you want and not just a copy of his beer. 

[Big Nake]

When Dan was on the BN for an interview he went on that he would not give out his recipes to his beers because(something like this) it made no sense to brew his beer when you can buy it.  He said you should brew the beer you want and not just a copy of his beer.

Sounds totally reasonable but their beer is only sold in Wisconsin so anyone who likes their beer but lives outside of WI has a valid reason to try to make it. I admit to breaking through the cheddar curtain on a New Glarus run (about 2 hours round trip) but I have been able to make their Two Women German Country Lager pretty closely and I also have a recipe that gets me close enough to their Moon Man Pale Ale that my wife tells me not to bother with the beer run.

[neddles]

Ettels: We've talked about mash temp before and I know that everyone's system is different but 156° for your mash temp seems high to get down to 1.013. Are you sure that your thermo is accurate on your mash? Seems like many brewers are mashing lower to avoid overly sweet beers but again... style dictates and I know that thermos are all over the place. I can't remember the last time I mashed over 152°. Many suggest that a couple degrees here or there won't matter but I make simpler beers so maybe it's easier to tell the difference.

It's a thermapen and it's calibrated. Same as you're using, I think. I have heard some theory that a thinner mash (I mash at full volume) will produce a more fermentable wort but I don't know how pronounced that effect really is or if it's in play in may case. For this 1.052 beer, mashing at 156F with only 4% crystal malt and using a generous starter of 1056 and adequate O2 getting to 1.013 or 75% attenuation (right in the middle of the 73-77% range Wyeast publishes) seems reasonable and in line with my expectations.

 

I will also say that I am starting to think that the extra gravity left behind by mashing higher seems to manifest itself much more in the form of body in the beer and less like sweetness. If I got that higher finishing gravity by adding crystal malt my thinking is that it would come across as sweeter with body. Would love to hear others perceptions of this in their own beer.

Edited by ettels4, 14 August 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[Big Nake]

If it's a Thermapen then I assume it's right on. One of the reasons I jumped to the Thermapen was because none of my El-Cheapo thermometers would read accurately or consistently and I guessed that I was mashing high and as a result, getting sweet-finishing beers. I don't necessarily want overly-dry beer or overly-sweet beer. I want the finish to be balanced. I would also chalk some of this up to different systems and different tastebuds so don't think I'm poking at it any more than just curious about the impact of that mash temp. Some people I see are mashing at 160° and I wonder if it's really 160° or if their thermo is off. Cheers.

[Big Nake]

Peeps: The work week is over and I'm brewing this afternoon. Filtering water and weighing out grains now. Check out what I'm going to do with these Mosaic hops... 8 lbs Malteurop 2-row base malt 1 lbs White Wheat 8 ounces Crystal 40L .40 ounces Nugget pellets at 13.5% for 60 mins (5.4 AAU) .25 ounces Nuuget pellets at 13.5% for 20 mins 1 oz Mosaic pellets 11.6% for 10 mins 1 oz Mosaic pellets 11.6% for 2 mins OG: 1.053, FG: 1.013, IBU: 54, SRM: 7, ABV: 5.2% So what is the low end of the IBU range for an IPA? Is it possible that I'm brewing an IPA today?    I have it on my recipe sheet as an APA but 54 is a bit high for me. 

[neddles]

Hell what's in a number anyways right? I say call it Frances if you want to!

 

What I am most curious about is the Nugget addition at 20.  What is the flavor of that hop? Does Nugget leave anything behind when used at 60 or is it pretty clean?

 

This is related to a thread I was just going to start in the main brewing forum.

[Big Nake]

I really like Nugget.  It's very clean and the smell of the hops when you open the bag is really nice.  A local commercial brewery actually uses them in a Kolsch so that tells you something.  I mentioned somewhere else that I feel like I get a boost from the late hops when I do something like a 20-min addition.  I know that some people are falling all over themselves to get the best late hop character (adding late, whirlpool, steeping, multiple dry-hop additions, etc) but I don't really care for dry hopping so doing a 20 seems to create a little shelf for the later additions to stand on.  Yes, you get some bittering and you also get flavor and these Nugget hops are clean enough to just lay down a foundation for the Mosaic.  I have never used Mosaic so I'm a newbie there.  Not sure if it's an IPA or not but I think I'm going to name this one (and create a tap handle for...) MOSAIC MOJO! 

 

EDIT:  One of Nugget's parents is Brewer's Gold and "possible subsitutions" for Nugget are Galena, Magnum and Columbus so that tells you something about their cleanliness.  Cheers.

Edited by KenLenard, 15 August 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[johnpreuss]

Peeps: The work week is over and I'm brewing this afternoon. Filtering water and weighing out grains now. Check out what I'm going to do with these Mosaic hops... OG: 1.053, FG: 1.013, IBU: 54, SRM: 7, ABV: 5.2% So what is the low end of the IBU range for an IPA? Is it possible that I'm brewing an IPA today?    I have it on my recipe sheet as an APA but 54 is a bit high for me. 

 

Looks like an APA to me.  Nothing wrong with a 1.050 / 50IBU APA!! I think you'd need to up those late additions by a couple ounces to make it an IPA. 

[neddles]

I really like Nugget.  It's very clean and the smell of the hops when you open the bag is really nice.  A local commercial brewery actually uses them in a Kolsch so that tells you something.  I mentioned somewhere else that I feel like I get a boost from the late hops when I do something like a 20-min addition.  I know that some people are falling all over themselves to get the best late hop character (adding late, whirlpool, steeping, multiple dry-hop additions, etc) but I don't really care for dry hopping so doing a 20 seems to create a little shelf for the later additions to stand on.  Yes, you get some bittering and you also get flavor and these Nugget hops are clean enough to just lay down a foundation for the Mosaic.  I have never used Mosaic so I'm a newbie there.  Not sure if it's an IPA or not but I think I'm going to name this one (and create a tap handle for...) MOSAIC MOJO! 

I am guessing that this may have been called an IPA like 15-20 yrs ago. I would call it an APA at my house but it matters not really.

 

Also, I must confess I can rarely tell the difference between the smells of various hops when cold and in the bag. I don't get and character smells from them until they hit hot wort. Before that they pretty much all smell the same to me. But I have never opened various bags at the same time and compared.

[Big Nake]

I just took my first whiff of Mosaic.  Reminds me a lot of Citra in the aroma.

[Big Nake]

Also, I have to say that C40 is not a crystal malt I use often. CaraMunich, 60 and 80 are common for me. 8 ounces of C40 in a 5-gallon batch is not a lot of color. It will be a very pale amber color which should be very attractive with some good clarity, etc. Smooth brewday with this one and the hops smelled pretty nice. Cheers.

[neddles]

Also, I have to say that C40 is not a crystal malt I use often. CaraMunich, 60 and 80 are common for me. 8 ounces of C40 in a 5-gallon batch is not a lot of color. It will be a very pale amber color which should be very attractive with some good clarity, etc. Smooth brewday with this one and the hops smelled pretty nice. Cheers.

I'm going to be curious to see how you like this Mosaic. It's fruity/berry-like on the finish but had some mild similarities to Simcoe to me. Poor descriptors but hey, thats me.

[Big Nake]

I have no problem with those descriptors... both from you and the sound of them in general. I like Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe so none of that sounds bad. Simcoe seems to have a piney thing going on which seems okay to me by itself and also paired with something like Amarillo. But a good whiff of Mosaic seemed to have that tropical/passionfruit thing and if someone had held those pellets up to my nose and asked me what they were, I'd probably answer CITRA. What I should do is marry Amarillo & Simcoe in an upcoming pale ale and maybe do something with a bunch of late Amarillo by itself. I think I made one like that but it was bad... possibly one of the unfortunate WLP090 batches. Cheers.

Edited by KenLenard, 15 August 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[johnpreuss]

I'm going to be curious to see how you like this Mosaic. It's fruity/berry-like on the finish but had some mild similarities to Simcoe to me. Poor descriptors but hey, thats me.

 

Simcoe is a parent of Mosaic.

[neddles]

…maybe do something with a bunch of late Amarillo by itself.

 

Simcoe is a parent of Mosaic.

Yep. Thats why the similarities don't surprise me. Of course there is always the power of suggestion so maybe it's in my head.

[Big Nake]

  Yep. Thats why the similarities don't surprise me. Of course there is always the power of suggestion so maybe it's in my head.

I didn't know that but I think the 'fruity' thing is more pronounced than the 'piney' thing. The lineage is interesting on some of these hops. I mentioned Nugget and how smooth and aromatic it was. I haven't used it late for anything but it has a nice bittering component and I think it would be nice as a flavoring hop as well. Brewer's Gold is part of its family and I just used some Brewer's Gold in my Hacienda Lager a few weeks ago. Cheers All!

[StankDelicious]

I have no problem with those descriptors... both from you and the sound of them in general. I like Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe so none of that sounds bad. Simcoe seems to have a piney thing going on which seems okay to me by itself and also paired with something like Amarillo. But a good whiff of Mosaic seemed to have that tropical/passionfruit thing and if someone had held those pellets up to my nose and asked me what they were, I'd probably answer CITRA. What I should do is marry Amarillo & Simcoe in an upcoming pale ale and maybe do something with a bunch of late Amarillo by itself. I think I made one like that but it was bad... possibly one of the unfortunate WLP090 batches. Cheers.

I had a Simcoe/Amarillo pale all this past weekend at Mashout. I liked it. I also had an all Mosaic IPA and it was one of my favorites of the weekend.