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#1 Big Nake

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:25 AM

Has this been discussed here? Fermostat.Another pricey brewing toy for those of you with a lot of disposable income. :D

#2 HVB

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:31 AM

Has this been discussed here? Fermostat.Another pricey brewing toy for those of you with a lot of disposable income. :D

I think you can flash the SCT1000 to do that.  Much cheaper but it does take some knowledge, equipment and time. For me, I will just be the one that controls it all.  I will adjust the temperate by what I see the beer doing not always by the time since I pitched.  Some engineering brewers judgment comes into play.



#3 MyaCullen

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:04 AM

I think you can flash the SCT1000 to do that.  Much cheaper but it does take some knowledge, equipment and time. For me, I will just be the one that controls it all.  I will adjust the temperate by what I see the beer doing not always by the time since I pitched.  Some engineering brewers judgment comes into play.

what if you could tie it into a brewbug?



#4 HVB

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:17 AM

what if you could tie it into a brewbug?

Sure, that will help but you are just adding more money onto it.  At some point I wounder if these devices are a solution looking for a problem? 



#5 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:48 AM

It probably isn't too hard to write a program and bread board a chip to run an STC1000 to do the same thing. I could probably get my brother to set up something like that.

 

The problem is that it's an open loop. There's no feedback. Yeast has it's own agenda and the only way to really know when to change temperatures is by taking gravity readings. So sure you can set a profile for the beer, but that doesn't mean it's right or that the yeast are ready to be warmed up or cooled down. If you used a beer bug like device to measure the fermentation and use it as a feedback mechanism you could then avoid having to take all the gravity readings and monitor the temp. That would be really cool, but it would be damn expensive.



#6 Big Nake

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:50 AM

At some point I wounder if these devices are a solution looking for a problem?

HEY! You stole that from me! :P

#7 HVB

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:51 AM

HEY! You stole that from me! :P

If I did I am sorry .. and I will add that I agree with you. :cheers:



#8 MyaCullen

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:12 AM

It probably isn't too hard to write a program and bread board a chip to run an STC1000 to do the same thing. I could probably get my brother to set up something like that.

 

The problem is that it's an open loop. There's no feedback. Yeast has it's own agenda and the only way to really know when to change temperatures is by taking gravity readings. So sure you can set a profile for the beer, but that doesn't mean it's right or that the yeast are ready to be warmed up or cooled down. If you used a beer bug like device to measure the fermentation and use it as a feedback mechanism you could then avoid having to take all the gravity readings and monitor the temp. That would be really cool, but it would be damn expensive.

basically drez just said all of that :D



#9 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

basically drez just said all of that :D

 

Well I said it second! And more longwindeder! 



#10 Big Nake

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:19 AM

Can I assume that this is more for lagers or are you guys wringing your hands over the fermentation temp for all beers? To ne honest, I'm not even wringing my hands over lager primary temps other than to make sure I pitch into well oxygenated wort that is at or below 50° and that it sits in the fridge (set to about 48°) and stays consistent until it's done... at which point I take it out to sit at room temp for a few days for the d-rest. I know there was talk about going 50° for 2 days, then 55°, then 58°, then 60°, etc. but I have to say that I have never taken that approach or heard how it made such a profound difference.

#11 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:21 AM

Has this been discussed here? Fermostat.Another pricey brewing toy for those of you with a lot of disposable income. :D

Basically the same thing for $55 here: https://www.blackboxbrew.com/

 

For 55, definitely tempting to play with, not at 170



#12 HVB

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:22 AM

 I know there was talk about going 50° for 2 days, then 55°, then 58°, then 60°, etc. but I have to say that I have never taken that approach or heard how it made such a profound difference.

I think this schedule was for a "fast" lager.

 

 I start my ales low 62-63 for the fist day or so.  I will then raise it up to about 66-67 for the bulk of fermentation and raise it again to about 70 as the fermentation starts to come to an end.  I will hold it at 70 for a day or so once signs show fermentation is pretty much over.  At that point I will either drop it to 65 for dry hopping or slowly start to cold crash the beer.  I am not advocating this just saying this is my process.



#13 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:31 AM

Can I assume that this is more for lagers or are you guys wringing your hands over the fermentation temp for all beers? To ne honest, I'm not even wringing my hands over lager primary temps other than to make sure I pitch into well oxygenated wort that is at or below 50° and that it sits in the fridge (set to about 48°) and stays consistent until it's done... at which point I take it out to sit at room temp for a few days for the d-rest. I know there was talk about going 50° for 2 days, then 55°, then 58°, then 60°, etc. but I have to say that I have never taken that approach or heard how it made such a profound difference.

I was doing something similar for lagers. 50 for 5 days raise to 65 for 3 then crash to 35 for a month of lagering. I read that the rapid temp swings can cause the yeast to express more esters so my current Helles is getting 5 days at 50, then raise 5 degrees every day until I hit 65, then drop 5 degrees per day until it's back at 50, then crash cool to 35 for lagering.

 

I didn't notice any significant esters in my original temp regime so I may be trying to fix a problem that wasn't there. We'll see with the new batch.



#14 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:35 AM

Sure, that will help but you are just adding more money onto it.  At some point I wounder if these devices are a solution looking for a problem? 

+1 I don't see the value in the brewbug. For most beers, you pitch enough healthy yeast, fermentation is complete in 5 days.


Edited by ChicagoWaterGuy, 15 August 2014 - 08:36 AM.


#15 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:41 AM

It's not a new method, but it was popularized on Brew Strong by Jamil as Mike "Tasty" McDoles Fast Ferment Method for lagers. The thing is that he filters his beers and puts them on ta within about 17-20 days depending on taste. Same thing that any big brewery would do. Mike likes to take readings and really scrutinize his beers. He reportedly makes some great beers, that doesn't mean his method is best, it's just one of many methods that work.



#16 Big Nake

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:52 AM

Yeah, I'm not necessarily advocating or poo-pooing a method (I have never typed poo-pooing in my life, swear) but my method is just a bit more laid-back than that and AFAIK, it's still considered a reasonable method. I'm generally NOT in a hurry to get beer to the taps and if I was, I would not make a lager. I'd make a pale ale or something forgiving that could conceivably make it from kettle to glass in 14 days, etc. Also... please know that I love toys. I just don't like toys that I don't really need. :P

#17 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:36 AM

Yeah, I'm not necessarily advocating or poo-pooing a method (I have never typed poo-pooing in my life, swear) but my method is just a bit more laid-back than that and AFAIK, it's still considered a reasonable method. I'm generally NOT in a hurry to get beer to the taps and if I was, I would not make a lager. I'd make a pale ale or something forgiving that could conceivably make it from kettle to glass in 14 days, etc. Also... please know that I love toys. I just don't like toys that I don't really need. :P

 

I agree. I do a half hearted attempt at the fast ferment method. 



#18 MyaCullen

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

I agree. I do a half hearted attempt at the fast ferment method. 

I did it it on my Okto, I'll be damned, it works pretty well



#19 Steve Urquell

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:05 AM

WRT lager D-rests and fast ferment: Awhile back I ended up with a little acetaldehyde(apple) in a Czech session lager. Let it sit on the cake for 3 weeks at 65F. It reduced quite a bit but not completely. Finally gave up and lagered it. It got dinged by 1/3 judges for slightly having it. I couldn't notice it but did find it after reading  the score sheet and tasting for it. Researched acetaldehyde and found that it boils at 20.2°C/  68.4°F. AJ confirmed this after raising the question. I will now always let my lagers reach and sit at 70F for a few days after ferment (even if I have to heat my chamber) to ward off apple.


Edited by chils, 16 August 2014 - 11:06 AM.


#20 Big Nake

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:54 AM

WRT lager D-rests and fast ferment: Awhile back I ended up with a little acetaldehyde(apple) in a Czech session lager. Let it sit on the cake for 3 weeks at 65F. It reduced quite a bit but not completely. Finally gave up and lagered it. It got dinged by 1/3 judges for slightly having it. I couldn't notice it but did find it after reading  the score sheet and tasting for it. Researched acetaldehyde and found that it boils at 20.2°C/  68.4°F. AJ confirmed this after raising the question. I will now always let my lagers reach and sit at 70F for a few days after ferment (even if I have to heat my chamber) to ward off apple.

Years ago I was fermenting lagers at 50° or so and then sending them directly to cold storage (35° or so) and had all kinds of issues. I think we can agree that after primary fermentation, some amount of room-temp time is good. Even if I didn't leave it room-temp on the yeast, it's going to sit in secondary on the basement floor until a keg opens up anyway so call that an extended d-rest. All of my lagers will get room-temp time. But I don't futz with the temp during primary.


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