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Late Night Pils


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#1 johnpreuss

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

So to go along with my beer forum posts... here's the recipe:

 

9 # Rahr Pilsner

1 # Wey. Vienna

6 oz Carahell

4 oz Acid Malt

8 oz Corn Starch

 

Mashed at 148-9 for 90 minutes or so.

 

1 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh  FWH

.5 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh  60

1 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh  15

1 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh  5

 

6.3% on those hops.

 

I'm doing a No sparge so I set my efficiency at 65% on this, thus the corn starch to make up some gravity points.  The carahell and Acid malt were to acidify the mash.  BNW gives me a mash pH of 5.4 with this and 2.5 g Gypsum and 4.5 grams of CaCl.

 

I'll be doing the starter of 2124 using 1/2 gallon of actual wort overnight and I will pitch before I go to work. (the same method Chils described awhile back).

 

This thing as I'm predicting should come in around 1.045 and 41 IBU.  We will have to see how the efficiency comes in with the no sparge.

 

I realize that I probably over did the late hop addtions by about 2x but I like me hops.

 

 



#2 johnpreuss

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:04 PM

Ok so I came in at 1.052-3.... that would make it 75% efficiency, which is where I am normally come in.  Anyone else get results like that when doing a no sparge beer?

 

I can live with a 1050 ish pils... I just can't believe I came in with the same efficiency. 



#3 Steve Urquell

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:08 AM

JP, I usually do a 2-3qt starter using the drauflassen method on a new smack pack or vial unless I'm repitching saved yeast. My method: Pull 1.5 gallons of runnings and boil 1 hr on stovetop down to 1 gal. Quickly chill to 50f and pitch yeast from slurry or starter while remainder of batch is boiling and place in 50 degree chamber. I use a 1 gal glass cacker jar covered in foil. Finish rest of batch and chill as far as I can--usually 65f. Place in chamber to chill. I usually rack off the sediment at least 24hrs later. Usually finish my batch at noon and don't pitch till 6pm the next day. The drauflassen starter is either finished or has heavy krausen by then. Add yeast hulls and DAP, aerate fully while racking. The settled wort is extremely clear--like gelled beer and the yeast harvest post-ferm is trub free.

#4 HVB

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:32 AM

I am going to ask a dumb questions but what is the corn starch for?



#5 matt6150

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:43 AM

I am going to ask a dumb questions but what is the corn starch for?

I wondered the same. He said to make up gravity points, but I don't believe there is any sugar in it.

#6 johnpreuss

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:54 AM

I am going to ask a dumb questions but what is the corn starch for?

 

It goes in the mash just like flaked corn.  It needs to be converted, then it becomes fermentable.



#7 johnpreuss

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:56 AM

JP, I usually do a 2-3qt starter using the drauflassen method on a new smack pack or vial unless I'm repitching saved yeast. My method: Pull 1.5 gallons of runnings and boil 1 hr on stovetop down to 1 gal. Quickly chill to 50f and pitch yeast from slurry or starter while remainder of batch is boiling and place in 50 degree chamber. I use a 1 gal glass cacker jar covered in foil. Finish rest of batch and chill as far as I can--usually 65f. Place in chamber to chill. I usually rack off the sediment at least 24hrs later. Usually finish my batch at noon and don't pitch till 6pm the next day. The drauflassen starter is either finished or has heavy krausen by then. Add yeast hulls and DAP, aerate fully while racking. The settled wort is extremely clear--like gelled beer and the yeast harvest post-ferm is trub free.

 

 

Ok then, the starter is going but not in high gear yet so I'm going to let it go until after work.  That should give the wort another 10 hours to settle out.  Probably a good thing since it's only been 6 or seven hours since I drained the kettle.



#8 HVB

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:04 AM

It goes in the mash just like flaked corn.  It needs to be converted, then it becomes fermentable.

Ok,  Any reason to use it over anything else or was it just convenient? 



#9 Steve Urquell

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:06 AM

Good choice.



#10 Steve Urquell

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:08 AM

Good choice on waiting a little longer. JP asked me about starch awhile back. I use it in place of flaked corn to lighten body cuz it's cheap and with no risk of staleness. For me, it adds about 1/2 of the corn flavor than flaked.

#11 johnpreuss

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:09 AM

Ok,  Any reason to use it over anything else or was it just convenient? 

 

Honestly in the move I found like 3 of the BIG, like 5 pound containers of the stuff around the house.  I decided to try using it.  I had seen Chils had used it in several recipes that we had discussed and after picking his brain a bit I thought what the heck and gave it a try.


Edited by johnpreuss, 22 August 2014 - 05:11 AM.


#12 HVB

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:13 AM

Good information on the corn starch.  Thanks John and Chils.



#13 Brauer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:11 AM

Ok so I came in at 1.052-3.... that would make it 75% efficiency, which is where I am normally come in. Anyone else get results like that when doing a no sparge beer? I can live with a 1050 ish pils... I just can't believe I came in with the same efficiency.

75% is my usual efficiency for a beer this size. Your mash was probably thinner than usual, which might explain why this was as efficient as your usual method. 75% on a sparged batch is low enough to suggest that you don't usually get complete conversion. 75% on a no-sparge indicates near-complete conversion.

#14 johnpreuss

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:21 AM

75% is my usual efficiency for a beer this size. Your mash was probably thinner than usual, which might explain why this was as efficient as your usual method. 75% on a sparged batch is low enough to suggest that you don't usually get complete conversion. 75% on a no-sparge indicates near-complete conversion.

 

Thinking back I'm usually between 75-80% efficiency... it's always been in that ball park.  I tightened the crush a bit after 5 or 6 batches with the barley crusher but never noticed a change in efficiency.

 

This is a disturbing thought.  I typically mash for more than 60 minutes but I know I lose volume in the tun and in the bottom of the kettle but I always figured I get full conversion.  This was a 90 min mash at 148 and a water to grist ratio of 3.35:1  and it lost a few degrees over the mash as well.  Typically I mash around 152 for 60-75 min with a ratio between 1.8-1.5 quarts/#.  Hmmmmm.  Every now and then I will do an iodine test just for grins as I vorlaf and it always comes up negative. 


Edited by johnpreuss, 22 August 2014 - 09:24 AM.


#15 Brauer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:10 PM

Thinking back I'm usually between 75-80% efficiency... it's always been in that ball park.  I tightened the crush a bit after 5 or 6 batches with the barley crusher but never noticed a change in efficiency.

 

This is a disturbing thought.  I typically mash for more than 60 minutes but I know I lose volume in the tun and in the bottom of the kettle but I always figured I get full conversion.  This was a 90 min mash at 148 and a water to grist ratio of 3.35:1  and it lost a few degrees over the mash as well.  Typically I mash around 152 for 60-75 min with a ratio between 1.8-1.5 quarts/#.  Hmmmmm.  Every now and then I will do an iodine test just for grins as I vorlaf and it always comes up negative. 

1.8 qt/# should be thin enough to see a benefit, but perhaps more can help under some circumstances.

 

Iodine will tell you if the starch in the wort is converted, but not if the starch in the grain is converted. It's been shown that conversion can continue after an iodine test is negative. Late in the mash, gelatinization appears to become the rate limiting reaction, not amylase, so you can have fully converted the starch in the wort but have starch remaining in the grist. A thinner mash can help gelatinization, improving efficiency when that is limiting. An alpha amylase rest can help, too.




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