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Re-Hydrating Dry Yeast


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#41 neddles

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 06:44 AM

Sometimes homebrewers get into a certain part of the hobby before they should be looking at other parts.

This was me to some degree as well. Here's another example. I have a friend who has asked me several times about how to get into all-grain brewing. His most basic extract kits with 1056 still taste strongly of band-aids. I have suggested several times that at the very least he gets a large garden bucket for $6.00 from Home Depot to use as a swamp cooler. Nope. He won't do it. The band aids persist and I can't drink his beer. He never seems to notice it though. His basement is the perfect temp too. He could probably ferment his beer there without the bucket. Nope. He wants to have the bucket in his kitchen (even in summer, no AC) Why?...so he can see the activity in the airlock. But what do I know?... he's been making beer for many more years than me.



#42 MyaCullen

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 06:57 AM

I can't believe this thread is even going this far.....  MOST of you haven't used dry yeast in forever or have denounced it... :stabby: BlKtRe ( I know you haven't commented - S05 hater).  I will say this, without dry yeast I wouldn't have brewed but once last year.  I can tell you rehydrating has it's pros and cons... personally I've decided I see no reason to rehydrate.  If you choose to do so you must only let it sit for 20 minutes max or you may as well make a starter, you also give your beer another chance to get contaminated and I see no difference in air lock lag time either way.. 

 

Just my $0.02

 

:scratch:

I use more than 50% dry yeast :)



#43 Big Nake

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 07:06 AM

This was me to some degree as well. Here's another example. I have a friend who has asked me several times about how to get into all-grain brewing. His most basic extract kits with 1056 still taste strongly of band-aids. I have suggested several times that at the very least he gets a large garden bucket for $6.00 from Home Depot to use as a swamp cooler. Nope. He won't do it. The band aids persist and I can't drink his beer. He never seems to notice it though. His basement is the perfect temp too. He could probably ferment his beer there without the bucket. Nope. He wants to have the bucket in his kitchen (even in summer, no AC) Why?...so he can see the activity in the airlock. But what do I know?... he's been making beer for many more years than me.

Yeah, that's funny. As I go to homebrew gatherings with locals, I see a lot of really bad beer. It's hard to tell people about flaws that they don't notice and sometimes people just *WANT* to believe that their beer is really good because they made it. Proper temps, fresh ingredients, some patience, good sanitation, etc. I remember being at a friend's house maybe 8-9 years after I started brewing and we were drinking my beer. Someone said, "Remember some of that stuff you made early on? That stuff was ROUGH!". And it probably was. But I remember at the time they said, "Yum! Homemade beer! Whoo!". :D

#44 denny

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 09:11 AM

if pitching into wort is 50% lethal, wouldn't having the wort freshly aerated help the survivors?

 

Intersting thought....maybe.



#45 MyaCullen

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 10:18 AM

Intersting thought....maybe.

I don't know one way or another, but I have just stayed with aerating everything, that way I wan't forget as easily when I do need it  :blush:



#46 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:46 AM

Ok, Dry yeast has come along ways since you started brewing!!!  LOL  j/k

 

I also have read but please do not quote me here because I have no scientific backing here but there is talk out there that Jamil/YeastCalc actually have you over pitching.  I have to ask the question, Is it really necessary to pitch as much yeast as they say, or is the extra yeast there to make up for other problems in your brewing?:  Not to be the devils advocate here but it is a valid question.  Do you ever read anywhere about Jamil worrying about pH or water chemistry?  I actually  remember reading in Brewing Classic Styles to leave your water alone. 

 

Don't get me wrong.  I like dry yeast (specifically S05 / S04 / W34/70 / heck my last nottingham beer was good)  but I have no problems using liquid yeasts.  My personal favorite yeasts are 1272, 1968, and 1450 that being said, I have my reservations about a right or wrong way to handle dry yeast.  We are talking about a living organism, they don't like following rules all the time.

I have confidence in Fix's (Jamil's) pitching rate numbers to be correct. I think the reason homebrewers can get away with lower rates is we don't need to get the beer off the yeast and out of the tanks as fast as the pros do. 



#47 positiveContact

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:31 PM

I don't know one way or another, but I have just stayed with aerating everything, that way I wan't forget as easily when I do need it  :blush:

 

I wouldn't mind skipping it if I don't have to for dry yeast.  just an extra step (O2 tank, regulator, etc.) and extra cleaning (O2 stone, tubing)



#48 Brauer

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:22 AM

I have confidence in Fix's (Jamil's) pitching rate numbers to be correct. I think the reason homebrewers can get away with lower rates is we don't need to get the beer off the yeast and out of the tanks as fast as the pros do. 

I don't think the questions that have risen over Jamil's calculator are not about the pitching density used in the calculation, but of the volume of starter recommended. It appears that it may underestimate yeast growth from a stirred starter.  For example, for 6 gallons of a 12 Plato Lager requiring 400 Billion cells, his calculator recommends a 3.75 L stirred starter from a fresh pack of yeast, whereas other experimental evidence would suggest a starter just over 2 L would be sufficient. For Ales, the potential overestimates are generally not as large, because the growth needed is lower to hit pitch recommendations.



#49 positiveContact

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:15 AM

I don't think the questions that have risen over Jamil's calculator are not about the pitching density used in the calculation, but of the volume of starter recommended. It appears that it may underestimate yeast growth from a stirred starter.  For example, for 6 gallons of a 12 Plato Lager requiring 400 Billion cells, his calculator recommends a 3.75 L stirred starter from a fresh pack of yeast, whereas other experimental evidence would suggest a starter just over 2 L would be sufficient. For Ales, the potential overestimates are generally not as large, because the growth needed is lower to hit pitch recommendations.

 

how about the kaiser stir plate calc?  that's what I've been using.



#50 Brauer

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:38 AM

how about the kaiser stir plate calc?  that's what I've been using.

Kai's experiments are the ones I'm most familiar with that demonstrated higher growth than Jamil's calculator. I've played around with generating my own algorithm for Kai's results, which gives similar results to Kai's stir plate calculator.



#51 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:32 PM

Jamil has talked about this. He said basically that his numbers were based on his experiments and his cell counts. He didn't use every strain so others could have different results. For me, I've never had a problem using his numbers but I prefer to use yeast calc. It allows you to calculate step ups instead of a giant starter. The only real way to know is to get some lab equipment.

#52 chadm75

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:58 AM

Chad: When you just sprinkled the yeast on the wort, was the wort oxygenated? I only ask because in the rare cases where my liquid yeast failed me and I went to the fridge for US05 (or whatever), I have just sprinkled the yeast right onto/into well-oxygenated wort and I have gotten very quick activity and what I would call decent beer. No beer is made here (lager or ale) without a good 60-seconds or more of pure O2. Just thinking out loud.

 

Ken - sorry for the late reply.  Just saw your post/question.

 

I've never force oxygenated my wort.  Just have always splashed wort into my fermenter and have never had any issues with lack of oxygen, that I know of.  I could never figure out why just sprinkling dry yeast didn't work me for other than there just wasn't enough healthy yeast.  But I've also always heard that dry yeast packets are chock full of healthy yeast.  So who knows.  What I do know is for me, it attenuates very poorly and leaves terrible off-flavors/aromas.  

 

That said, I need to get 1272 on the stir plate for 10 gallons of Blonde Ale to be brewed on Sunday.


Edited by chadm75, 10 September 2014 - 08:59 AM.



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