28 replies to this topic

[neddles]

For those of you that know this malt I am thinking about using it in a APA. Looking for some feedback on how it would come across. My understanding is that it has quite a bit of character on its own. Here's how they describe it. "[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;]Floor malting gives the malt a satisfying, earthy malt flavor and an intense aroma with notes of biscuit and honey." [/color]

 

To me this sounds worth a try maybe with a small amount of C60. No decoctions for me thanks but I may do a 5-10min protein rest at 131F since it is described as slightly under-modified.

 

Thoughts? 

[Big Nake]

I have used it but not in an APA. I could see your reasoning for wanting to see how it would come out but I'll be honest... I save my pilsner malt for more delicate styles and typically use a nice domestic pale ale malt when I make APAs. You'll have to let us know how it comes out if you try it and also if you think that it could be a key in making a nice APA.

[neddles]

I have used it but not in an APA. I could see your reasoning for wanting to see how it would come out but I'll be honest... I save my pilsner malt for more delicate styles and typically use a nice domestic pale ale malt when I make APAs. You'll have to let us know how it comes out if you try it and also if you think that it could be a key in making a nice APA.

Yep me too. Just looking to try something different. I just thought I would tap the collective here to see if the character of this malt is strong enough to hold up and play well in an APA. I think either chils or CWG or both have used it for Helles including the recommended by Weyermann decoction schedule. I have no intention of doing that so I really have nothing to "save" it for.

[Big Nake]

Yep me too. Just looking to try something different. I just thought I would tap the collective here to see if the character of this malt is strong enough to hold up and play well in an APA. I think either chils or CWG or both have used it for Helles including the recommended by Weyermann decoction schedule. I have no intention of doing that so I really have nothing to "save" it for.

I guess I was thinking that pilsner is a little more delicate (and expensive in some cases) that I would save it for the more delicate beers (pilsners, helles, kolsch and other lagers). I don't see how it could come out badly but whether it will make a nice APA is the question. Should be interesting.

[MyaCullen]

IIRC, Dogfish Head uses a British Pils malt in 60, 90, and 120 minute IPAs, I say go for it, you'll never know if you like it or not without trying it

 

I've used domestic Pils malt as an APA base, nice character IMO

[Big Nake]

IIRC, Dogfish Head uses a British Pils malt in 60, 90, and 120 minute IPAs, I say go for it, you'll never know if you like it or not without trying it I've used domestic Pils malt as an APA base, nice character IMO

It's very possible that I went to make an APA sometime in the past and only had 5 or 6 lbs of pale ale malt and made up the rest with pils but that's not really what we're talking about here. I wouldn't hesitate to make up the extra grist that way but here the character of the APA would be from all pils (this particular pils) so try it and see. Then let me know when it's ready so I can come up and drink some with you.

[Steve Urquell]

This is a very fine malt. It says it's kilned ~1.7-2 but it tastes more like 3.5L malt. It isn't likeother pils malts I've used and it makes Best Malz pils taste like straight up cardboard when tasted side by side.The honey character is spot on. It tastes like honey in the finished beer and in the raw grain. This malt has enough character to hold its own in an APA or an IPA. I brewed a Bohemian IPL with 11 ozs of Saaz and spalt hops and the malt character came thru just fine. Good stuff. Chomp a few raw grains and you'll see.I did a 10min 135F protein rest on my last pils with it and it worked great. This stuff will cap your mash with waxy gunk, so slice it up when you runoff or it will channel or stick. I've done some gnarly 60% adjunct mashes w/o using rice hulls and never had one stick. First stuck runoff I've had was using this stuff w/o slicing the top. Since I started slicing it up--no problems.

[Big Nake]

...and it makes Best Malz pils taste like straight up cardboard when tasted side by side.

I don't like the sound of that as Best Malz is the pilsner malt I used the most. Did you make the same beer with both malts and taste them or was one of them your beer and the other made by another homebrewer, etc?

[Steve Urquell]

I don't like the sound of that as Best Malz is the pilsner malt I used the most. Did you make the same beer with both malts and taste them or was one of them your beer and the other made by another homebrewer, etc?

Same recipe, BM vs FM. No contestETA: Here, see post#18: https://www.brews-br...ted german pils

Edited by chils, 11 September 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[MyaCullen]

gotta get me some of that this spring, that's the character my Pils beer is missing

[Big Nake]

Same recipe, BM vs FM. No contestETA: Here, see post#18: https://www.brews-br...ted german pils

Huh. So if I tried using that malt, must I do a 135° rest prior to going to my sac rest? No direct-fired MT here so I would have to play with it by adding boiling water, etc. How do you see this malt working with just a single infusion mash? I will say that your Best Malz pils looks very nice in that thread.

[neddles]

Yeah I remember chils talking up that malt. Anyhow the other disclosure I have is that I had an APA at a small brewery in Madison not that long ago that I thought was really good. The beer description boasted of a distinctive sweet sugar cookie flavor in the beer that was from "bohemian pilsner malt".(I have never gotten "sugar cookie" when tasting  100% or mostly pils malt beers.) It seemed kind of like rich baked biscuits and maybe a little like a warm sugar cookie in the flavor. I asked my server about the hops in it and he went to check with the head brewer. Soon he returned, Cascade, Centennial and Columbus. Great. I also asked about the hops in their IPA, again, he checks with the head brewer and returns. Galena, Cluster, Citra. Great. Now to ask about the malt in the APA… oh crap my kids are starting to lose it. Oh well we'd better go…I'll email the head brewer later. So I did. Complemented them on their establishment and their beer. Inquired about the recipe for the APA and mentioned I was not looking for a detailed recipe but perhaps just the malts involved (I can figure out how to get Cascade/Cents/Columbus flavor into a beer). I specifically asked who the maltster for the bohemian pils malt was and if it was a floor malted product or not. I got no answer. So I emailed again and got a very brief reply from the "Head Brewer" which basically said… "Sorry, but we keep it close to vest and do not give out any details about the recipes or ingredients of any of our beers." Obviously not true. Got me real curious about that pils malt. So I've been thinking about it off and on for a little while and figure there is really only one way to find out.

[Big Nake]

I could see ordering enough for one beer and make a pils with it and see how it goes. I don't think my LHBS sells this malt by the sack so I would probably order 10-15 lbs online from Rebel or something and then use some Hallertau and Saaz or something and make a nice 5.5% pils, 30 IBU or something. But I would like to know if the rest was necessary. I think I used some Weyermann Pils awhile back and made a terribly cloudy mess of a pils but that was before my water and pH practices were up to par. Ettels (Nettles?)... your story sounds like one of mine. Everyone at the table is talking about [whatever] and I'm trying to formulate a recipe for the beer I'm drinking or trying to guess the hops. Guessing the hops is tricky sometimes. The one I had at the brewery in Bloomington, IN was Glacier, Crystal and Cascade. Tough to pick those three specifically.

[Steve Urquell]

Huh. So if I tried using that malt, must I do a 135° rest prior to going to my sac rest? No direct-fired MT here so I would have to play with it by adding boiling water, etc. How do you see this malt working with just a single infusion mash? I will say that your Best Malz pils looks very nice in that thread.

I've only step mashed with this malt as I've read it is undermodified. Knowing how much protein caps the mash, I'd hate to see that in my beer.I do multi-rest infusions in a cooler tun by adding boiling water and checking temp as I go. I use this to get me close. https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/I dough in at 1:1 to keep from having to add too much water.

[Big Nake]

I've only step mashed with this malt as I've read it is undermodified. Knowing how much protein caps the mash, I'd hate to see that in my beer.I do multi-rest infusions in a cooler tun by adding boiling water and checking temp as I go. I use this to get me close. https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/I dough in at 1:1 to keep from having to add too much water.

I've done this with a Hochkurz mash where I need to target 145° and then boost it to 160° but it's relatively easy to do that. So where are you resting (temps) and for how long? I have very little experience with the undermodified malts. Also, I know that Weyermann made two different pils malts (at least) and that one was this undermodified version. Is it possible that the other one is fully modified but would still give you that nice robust character you're talking about? Turns out my LHBS does carry the floor-malted version so I may look for it but it would depend on the rest schedule & complexity of it. Cheers and thanks for the info.

Edited by KenLenard, 12 September 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[Steve Urquell]

I've done this with a Hochkurz mash where I need to target 145° and then boost it to 160° but it's relatively easy to do that. So where are you resting (temps) and for how long?

Weyermann says it has a Kolbach Index of 38.4% and total protein of 10.8%. Most of the brew science gurus recommend a protein rest if the malt is below 38% or has ~12% protein, so (according to the numbers) this malt should do OK with a single infusion mash/no protein rest.That being said, I have only step mashed this malt and prefer these rest schedules. My first mashes with this malt had 131F rests for 30mins and ended up with head retention problems, thus the shortened, higher temp protein rests.German pils schedule: 135F/10min, 140F/30min, 158F/30minCzech pils: 135°F/10 minutes; 145°F/30 minutes; 160°F/30 minutes. 

I have very little experience with the undermodified malts. Also, I know that Weyermann made two different pils malts (at least) and that one was this undermodified version. Is it possible that the other one is fully modified but would still give you that nice robust character you're talking about?

The floor malted version is a completely different variety of malt than the others and produced in a different malting facility in Czech Rep. The floor malt is Tolar or Bojos, while the non-floor malt is Hanka, so I'm betting they taste different.I haven't tried their other offerings so can't comment on them. I was chomping raw grain at my last brewday and mixed the Best Malz pils and floor malt. Tasting them raw, I could taste exactly what they were imparting in my finished beer. The BM was husky, grainy and not as sweet, the floor malt was toasty and very sweet. The closest raw grain flavor that I've had that compares to the floor malt is 6L Dingeman's Belgian Munich. It's simply that rich.Chomp a few raw grains and decide if you think the difference is worthwhile. To me, it was like night and day.

[Big Nake]

Weyermann says it has a Kolbach Index of 38.4% and total protein of 10.8%. Most of the brew science gurus recommend a protein rest if the malt is below 38% or has ~12% protein, so (according to the numbers) this malt should do OK with a single infusion mash/no protein rest.That being said, I have only step mashed this malt and prefer these rest schedules. My first mashes with this malt had 131F rests for 30mins and ended up with head retention problems, thus the shortened, higher temp protein rests.German pils schedule: 135F/10min, 140F/30min, 158F/30minCzech pils: 135°F/10 minutes; 145°F/30 minutes; 160°F/30 minutes. The floor malted version is a completely different variety of malt than the others and produced in a different malting facility in Czech Rep. The floor malt is Tolar or Bojos, while the non-floor malt is Hanka, so I'm betting they taste different.I haven't tried their other offerings so can't comment on them. I was chomping raw grain at my last brewday and mixed the Best Malz pils and floor malt. Tasting them raw, I could taste exactly what they were imparting in my finished beer. The BM was husky, grainy and not as sweet, the floor malt was toasty and very sweet. The closest raw grain flavor that I've had that compares to the floor malt is 6L Dingeman's Belgian Munich. It's simply that rich.Chomp a few raw grains and decide if you think the difference is worthwhile. To me, it was like night and day.

Yep, very interesting. My original go-to pilsner malt was Durst Turbo Pils and then it got hard to find and very expensive. I asked around and had a number of people suggest Best Malz. I feel like my lagers are coming out much better than they used to but without a lot of experience with various malts, you can't really compare. I'm going to Czech it out and see if I can get my hands on some and make a gold lager with it. I don't think I want to go with an entire sack just yet but eventually maybe. There was also a school of thought awhile back saying that there were certain continental malts that had so much flavor that many people thought it was TOO much of a good thing. Some of those people were saying that they would use a domestic pilsner to keep the character of the beer "cleaner". I have mentioned a number of times that I sample a German or Czech beer and taste something that I can't seem to put my finger on... a sort of bright, freshly cut-grass character and a slightly acidic bite, etc. Not sure if that character is coming from the grain or not but certainly worth a try and I'm all for experimentation. Thanks Chils... good stuff.

[Steve Urquell]

There was also a school of thought awhile back saying that there were certain continental malts that had so much flavor that many people thought it was TOO much of a good thing. Some of those people were saying that they would use a domestic pilsner to keep the character of the beer "cleaner".

I've said this on this board before WRT German pils. Floor malt is a little too flavorful for an authentic German Pils. I like a malty pils though, so my next German version will probably be 50/50 floor malt/Best Malz pils. 

I have mentioned a number of times that I sample a German or Czech beer and taste something that I can't seem to put my finger on... a sort of bright, freshly cut-grass character and a slightly acidic bite, etc. Not sure if that character is coming from the grain or not but certainly worth a try and I'm all for experimentation. Thanks Chils... good stuff.

I look at German and Czech pils as a reflection of the character of the people.German: Strict, industrious, precise, clean, inflexibleCzech: hard working, open, friendly, unwashed, culturally richI gel my German pils but not my Czech ones. I think gel takes away little of that grassy Saaz character as well as a little of the yeast flavor that I taste in Czech beer. I want my Czech beer to have a little of the brewpub character as if you were visiting one in a quiet Czech village sipping on a fresh, local Svetly with the locals.

[Big Nake]

I've said this on this board before WRT German pils. Floor malt is a little too flavorful for an authentic German Pils. I like a malty pils though, so my next German version will probably be 50/50 floor malt/Best Malz pils. I look at German and Czech pils as a reflection of the character of the people.German: Strict, industrious, precise, clean, inflexibleCzech: hard working, open, friendly, unwashed, culturally richI gel my German pils but not my Czech ones. I think gel takes away little of that grassy Saaz character as well as a little of the yeast flavor that I taste in Czech beer. I want my Czech beer to have a little of the brewpub character as if you were visiting one in a quiet Czech village sipping on a fresh, local Svetly with the locals.

Okay, cut it out... you're making me thirsty! Thanks Chils... something to look into, for sure.

[neddles]

Chils, anyone, do you know the potential gravity points from this malt? Cannot find a decent malt analysis on this malt. Otherwise will go with same yield as their standard Boh. Pils malt.