20 replies to this topic

[Poptop]

Hey Fellas, all this Red X talk and recipes have inspired me to make a batch; another pseudo Alt sorta kinda... I'm making a 10 gallon batch based on my equipment, hence the DME. This recipe is about a month out and will likely change a few times but the grain, extract and yeast have been ordered. All other items are variable at this time. Rot Alt 10 gallon, OG 1.053, 16 SRM, 38 IBU, ~ 5.4% abv 12# Red X 5# German Munich 3# Light DME .25# each; CaraAroma, Dark Crystal and C40 1 oz Magnum at 60 - 24IBU 1.25 oz Hallertau at 30 - 8IBU 1 oz Moteuka at 15 - 6IBU 1 oz Moteuka at FO WY1007 German Ale Attempting a mash at 152 How low should I go with the yeast?

[positiveContact]

so I haven't been following closely - is red X like a pils or like munich or what?  I'm talking in terms of flavor - not color.

[Poptop]

I've read everything from light 2 row to Pils to light Munich.... Gents?

[Big Nake]

Haven't used it yet but I've heard it described as Munich-like. The color of it looks like it would be more like Munich 10L as opposed to the Munich 6L. Brother Poptop, I'm not sure you need to waste your perfectly good Munich malt in this beer with the RedX being described as Munich-like. I have nothing to base that on but it seems redundant. My RedX is arriving today and I'm looking forward to just smelling it and maybe chomping on a few kernels. Also, on the 1007... just let it do it's thing (I like to keep it cool) and give it time to drop after fermentation is complete. I do pretty much the same things fining-wise on all batches and with some patience, some gel solution and some amount of cold storage, you can get a 1007 beer as clear as any other. The altbier pic I posted in the other thread was made with 1007 and it's really clear.

[Poptop]

Thanks Brother Ken. My aim is a nice malty beer and the Munich will hopefully lean this batch in that direction. However I don't want to be drinking a loaf of bread.. Hmmm...... I will definitely gel this batch for the utmost clarity. Very excited.

[positiveContact]

Thanks Brother Ken. My aim is a nice malty beer and the Munich will hopefully lean this batch in that direction. However I don't want to be drinking a loaf of bread.. Hmmm...... I will definitely gel this batch for the utmost clarity. Very excited.

 

I think what he's saying is if the red-x is like munich in terms of taste why not just use all red-x and get all of the red goodness you can out of it?

[Big Nake]

I think what he's saying is if the red-x is like munich in terms of taste why not just use all red-x and get all of the red goodness you can out of it?

Right. I posted a recipe in nettles RedX thread for what I'm going to do with the RedX. I will use the RedX for all the base malt (9 lbs in 5 gallons) and then add a small amount of Special B and some TF&S Dark crystal (3 ounces of each) to try to get a rederer, reddest, really red beer. I'm going to use this WLP011 that I just used on a pseudo-altbier and these Mandarina Bavaria hops. The way that others have described the RedX, adding Munich does not sound necessary but I defer to BlKtRe or anyone else who has brewed with it and who has tasted the resulting beer. I will probably mash on the low side too because WLP011 produces malt-forward beers.

[Poptop]

I'm listening... I too am adding some nice crystal for the reddest finish I can achieve (guesses/hopes)...

[Big Nake]

The TEMP RANGE on the yeast is 55-68°. I have used it on the low end...probably 58-60° and it's very clean although its unique characteristics come through and you know it's not 1056 or something along those lines. If you want clean, keep it low. I have no experience with CaraAroma but my guess is that your additions of crystal will darken the beer as I looked into doing. I'm only adding 6 ounces total but mine are 3 ounces of Special B (155L) and TF&S Dark #1 (80-93L) so I could end up with quite a dark red beer.

[Poptop]

Curiosity got the best of me and I contacted Farmhouse Brewing Supply and a fella named John gave me his take on Red X. He suggested that Red X takes on a cross between a Vienna and Munich. However after making a 75% Red X batch with Pilsner added, he felt the batch needed more malt flavor. He suggested that some Munich would have enhanced what he was aiming for (pseudo German Lager). I'm not quoting him to the T but I did tell him I was going to share his opinion with my Brothers. So after hearing that, and knowing that I want a batch with a handsome malt backbone, I am going to stand as is on my grain bill and hope for the best.....

[Big Nake]

Curiosity got the best of me and I contacted Farmhouse Brewing Supply and a fella named John gave me his take on Red X. He suggested that Red X takes on a cross between a Vienna and Munich. However after making a 75% Red X batch with Pilsner added, he felt the batch needed more malt flavor. He suggested that some Munich would have enhanced what he was aiming for (pseudo German Lager). I'm not quoting him to the T but I did tell him I was going to share his opinion with my Brothers. So after hearing that, and knowing that I want a batch with a handsome malt backbone, I am going to stand as is on my grain bill and hope for the best.....

Very good information and trustworthy since it came from someone who has used the malt and someone who works at what looks to be a very good supplier. The order I placed for the RedX (and other stuff) is coming from Farmhouse and it's the first time I have used them. Their hop section was very robust and I saw a number of hops I haven't seen before and they also hooked me up with some Ultra which I have looked for many times but it's always out of stock at other suppliers. It sounds like an awesome American hop along the lines of Mt. Hood, Santiam and some others. They're also in my backyard which is nice. It's the first time I ordered anything online in awhile and also the first time in a loooong time that I order online from someone other than Rebel. So keep us posted as you go down this road with RedX and Munich and let us know how it comes out.

[denny]

Frankly, I'd recommend you either eliminate the crystal or cut it back to one or 2 types.  I'm seeing muddled flavors there.

[Poptop]

No crystal at all? Porque mi Amigo?

[Big Nake]

Jeebus knows I wouldn't speak for Denny but I think the point here is "what do you want the beer to be like?" and "what do you want the crystal to do for you?". A tricky question because you don't have experience with the RedX malt yet and how do you know what it's like? I'm having the same issue which is why I went with a very small addition of crystal malts which was not as much for flavor or mouthfeel as much as it was for color. I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of these base malts. I have used my share of Briess and Rahr malts, Canada Malting, Great Western and some English malts as well as various pilsners. I have used very bland pale malts and didn't really dress them up with anything (Munich, Vienna, Crystal, etc) and ended up with a boring beer as a result. Rahr Pale Ale malt is my new go-to domestic base malt and I can use it in almost any style. It's quite rich and deep in character so less of something like Munich, Vienna or crystal malt is okay. Here with the RedX, I think it's going to have a nice deep character and ¾ pound of crystal may not be necessary. Of course, I said that about the Munich too so take it for what its worth... I haven't used the RedX either. 

Edited by KenLenard, 07 October 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[positiveContact]

3/4 lb of crystal in 10 gallons isn't that much.  I think it make sense to just pick one crystal though.  if the red-x is going to be pretty malty as it is I might cut it back to half a pound.  it is tough to make a call since I'm not familiar with red-x.

[denny]

3/4 lb of crystal in 10 gallons isn't that much.  I think it make sense to just pick one crystal though.  if the red-x is going to be pretty malty as it is I might cut it back to half a pound.  it is tough to make a call since I'm not familiar with red-x.

 

Ken nailed my thoguht...what do you want the crystal to do for you?  It looked to me like you had just thought "I need some crystal in there, how about these?".  I may very well be wrong, though.  Can you explain what each of those, in those amounts, will bring to the flavor?  If so, keep 'em.  If not, rethink.

[Big Nake]

3/4 lb of crystal in 10 gallons isn't that much.  I think it make sense to just pick one crystal though.  if the red-x is going to be pretty malty as it is I might cut it back to half a pound.  it is tough to make a call since I'm not familiar with red-x.

True. I forgot it was 10 gallons. He's using 12 ounces in 10 gallons and I'm using 6 ounces in 5 gallons so it's the same ratio.

[positiveContact]

Ken nailed my thoguht...what do you want the crystal to do for you?  It looked to me like you had just thought "I need some crystal in there, how about these?".  I may very well be wrong, though.  Can you explain what each of those, in those amounts, will bring to the flavor?  If so, keep 'em.  If not, rethink.

 

I'd guess he was looking for some extra color and caramel like flavor contribution and body.  isn't that why we all put crystal in?

[Poptop]

Besides the fact that the CaraA and Fawcett Dark is leftover, I want them to "help" enhance a red/mahogany color. In my novice thought process I never though they would bring much caramel to the table. Color mostly. I have eliminated the c40.

[positiveContact]

Besides the fact that the CaraA and Fawcett Dark is leftover, I want them to "help" enhance a red/mahogany color. In my novice thought process I never though they would bring much caramel to the table. Color mostly. I have eliminated the c40.

 

it would be a fairly small amount of flavor for sure but I bet you'll still be able to tell it was there.