50 replies to this topic

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Now I'm really confused. 

It's also nice to maintain your temp. My 4 hour no-sparge mash loses a few degrees. I'd also like to experiment to see how raising to mash out temp effect efficiency.

[HVB]

Ultra low density 1500

 

Nice,

 

I use the same wattage but I think mine is just low density.

[BlKtRe]

It's also nice to maintain your temp. My 4 hour no-sparge mash loses a few degrees. I'd also like to experiment to see how raising to mash out temp effect efficiency.

 

I know all this, Im just being facetious. 

[matt6150]

I am thinking of adding a RIMS to use in conjuction with my EHERMS. I have found it takes forever to raise temps and this should help I would think.

[HVB]

I am thinking of adding a RIMS to use in conjuction with my EHERMS. I have found it takes forever to raise temps and this should help I would think.

I thought long and hard when I built my rig about a HERMS.  In the end I am glad I went with the RIMS.  Prior to that I have a stand alone HERMS that worked great.  It was in a small round cooler with a  19' coil of 1/2 soft copper.  What I like about a RIMS over a HERMS is I can have my HLT at my sparge temp while my mash is still at a sacrification temp. I couldn't figure out how I could make that work with a HERMS coil in my HLT.

[matt6150]

I thought long and hard when I built my rig about a HERMS. In the end I am glad I went with the RIMS. Prior to that I have a stand alone HERMS that worked great. It was in a small round cooler with a 19' coil of 1/2 soft copper. What I like about a RIMS over a HERMS is I can have my HLT at my sparge temp while my mash is still at a sacrification temp. I couldn't figure out how I could make that work with a HERMS coil in my HLT.

I'm not sure if I've ran into a situation that I wish I could do that. Are brewing process must be a little different. What I wish I had the RIMS for is after my sacc rest I bump up the temp in the HLT to sparge temp and rely on the HERMS coil to raise the temp in the MLT. It could take up to a hour with a large batch to do this before I start the sparge (fly).

[HVB]

I'm not sure if I've ran into a situation that I wish I could do that. Are brewing process must be a little different. What I wish I had the RIMS for is after my sacc rest I bump up the temp in the HLT to sparge temp and rely on the HERMS coil to raise the temp in the MLT. It could take up to a hour with a large batch to do this before I start the sparge (fly).

I have to double check the number but I think I am getting 1 degree per minute rise with my RIMS. 

[bigdaddyale]

Matt has modded the STC1000 to control a RIMS system.

https://www.homebrew...irmware-487104/

https://www.homebrew...-heater-453935/

Edited by bigdaddyale, 15 October 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I plan on starting with my single stage ranco. A modded stc1000 with programmable steps might be down the road.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

The ranco worked just fine. I did a test run to check for leaks. Went from 60 to 150, just water. I didn't time it but their were no initial issues. Home Depot didn't have ultra low density elements, only medium density. I'll give it a try with grain. I doubt I'm getting all 1500 watts to the element using the controller. 

[3rd party JKor]

I have my thermocouple at the wort return manifold, as opposed to the outlet of the HERMS/RIMS heater to account for temp loss between the heating outlet and where the wort contacts the grain bed.  Depending on where your RIMS is and the conditions you're brewing in there might be a negligible difference, but for me I saw a degree or two drop from the HERMS exit to the wort return manifold.

[mabrungard]

Unless you have a really soft heat source...like a HERMS...you would want the temperature sensor located immediately downstream of the heating element or you will end up overheating your wort. It really doesn't matter what the wort temperature is coming out of the tun. But it definitely matters what the maximum temp of the wort is. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that overheating the wort in the RIMS tube eventually denatures all the enzymes and you end up with a wort that won't attenuate and you are left with a worty beer. Not good. 

 

If you want to know what the wort temp is coming out of the mash tun, insert a regular thermometer there. But keep the temp element that controls your PID located immediately downstream of the element.

[HVB]

Unless you have a really soft heat source...like a HERMS...you would want the temperature sensor located immediately downstream of the heating element or you will end up overheating your wort. It really doesn't matter what the wort temperature is coming out of the tun. But it definitely matters what the maximum temp of the wort is. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that overheating the wort in the RIMS tube eventually denatures all the enzymes and you end up with a wort that won't attenuate and you are left with a worty beer. Not good. If you want to know what the wort temp is coming out of the mash tun, insert a regular thermometer there. But keep the temp element that controls your PID located immediately downstream of the element.

Pretty much exactly how mine is set up.

[3rd party JKor]

Unless you have a really soft heat source...like a HERMS...you would want the temperature sensor located immediately downstream of the heating element or you will end up overheating your wort. It really doesn't matter what the wort temperature is coming out of the tun. But it definitely matters what the maximum temp of the wort is. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that overheating the wort in the RIMS tube eventually denatures all the enzymes and you end up with a wort that won't attenuate and you are left with a worty beer. Not good. 

 

If you want to know what the wort temp is coming out of the mash tun, insert a regular thermometer there. But keep the temp element that controls your PID located immediately downstream of the element.

 

 

You definitely don't want it in the grain bed or on the outlet of the MLT.  Although, if your control point is the outlet of the RIMs you could have issues with grain bed temp depending on how much loss you have between the RIMS heater and the wort return.  You need to learn to dial in the RIMS output temp to give you the right average grain bed temp.  You may need to go 2-4+ degrees higher on the RIMS outlet setting to hit your mash bed temp.  This is also highly dependent on the flow rate you're pushing.  Higher flow rates require less delta from the outlet of the RIMS to the mash temp.

[BlKtRe]

You definitely don't want it in the grain bed or on the outlet of the MLT. Although, if your control point is the outlet of the RIMs you could have issues with grain bed temp depending on how much loss you have between the RIMS heater and the wort return. You need to learn to dial in the RIMS output temp to give you the right average grain bed temp. You may need to go 2-4+ degrees higher on the RIMS outlet setting to hit your mash bed temp. This is also highly dependent on the flow rate you're pushing. Higher flow rates require less delta from the outlet of the RIMS to the mash temp.

All this. But in the end when dialing it in keeping track of your attenuation for a few batches closely will be the factor of what temp to set the RIMS PID. For me I will be conservative when I get mine going because I prefer drier beers.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Does anyone use a speed controller to dial down the power on their element?

[HVB]

Does anyone use a speed controller to dial down the power on their element?

Mine is on or off.  I really never thought of adding any kind of control to the element like that.  My brew kettle does have a PWM control so i can dial it back.  I am not sure why benefit it would have in a RIMS unless you had a real big element in there.

[mabrungard]

With 

 

Does anyone use a speed controller to dial down the power on their element?

With a PID, I'm not sure that any reduction in power is truly needed. The PID pulses the element on and off, as needed. If the temperature sensor is mounted immediately downstream of the heater, then it will sense and turn the power on and off in rapid and responsive action. The most important thing I found was that avoiding the overheating of your wort in the RIMS chamber is really the number one issue. Overheating the wort is how you end up prematurely denature your enzymes and that eventually prevents all the sugars and starches from converting.

[HVB]

 

 Overheating the wort is how you end up prematurely denature your enzymes and that eventually prevents all the sugars and starches from converting.

 

At what temperature range would you consider overheating? 

 

[BlKtRe]

At what temperature range would you consider overheating?

For me any temp that would mess up the attenuation of the style I'm brewing. Other than that I can't see much attenuation above 160*