37 replies to this topic

[Deerslyr]

Ok, I can get behind the scientific evaluation of the IBU difference, but how do you quantify whether the bitterness is "less aggressive"?  I'm not asking to be a jerk and dispute it, but rather to have a better idea as to how you quantify that.  It does seem counter-intuitive that a beer with a higher IBU would be less aggressive, no?  

[HVB]

The same quantity of hops yielded 25 ibus from FWH and 20 ibus from a 60 min addition. The FWH bitterness was less aggresive than the 60 min addition. 

They measures ibu's at Founder's lab and ran the beers through their taste panel.

 

Thanks, first I have seen this

Ok, I can get behind the scientific evaluation of the IBU difference, but how do you quantify whether the bitterness is "less aggressive"?  I'm not asking to be a jerk and dispute it, but rather to have a better idea as to how you quantify that.  It does seem counter-intuitive that a beer with a higher IBU would be less aggressive, no?  

No, I do not think so.  I can brew a beer with 60 IBU's of Chinook and 80 IBU's of Magnum and I would bet that the magnum beer would be less aggressive.  Now this may not be a fair argument because I mixed up hop types.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I'm trying to access the presentations on the AHA site but the link is down now. I'll try again later to see if I can get the data.

[positiveContact]

basically what drez said.  I think that people can evaluate whether a bitterness is more or less "in your face", "aggressive", "harsh" or whatever regardless of what they actually like. 

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

As a side note, Mash Hopping the same quantity of hops resulted in 5 ibus in the finished beer.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Ok, I can get behind the scientific evaluation of the IBU difference, but how do you quantify whether the bitterness is "less aggressive"?  I'm not asking to be a jerk and dispute it, but rather to have a better idea as to how you quantify that.  It does seem counter-intuitive that a beer with a higher IBU would be less aggressive, no?  

All I can say from tasting the beers is that the FWH beer with 25 measured ibus tasted less bitter than the 60 minute 20 ibu beer. In certain bitter beers, you get a pop of bitterness up front, then taste the malt and hops. The FWH beer didn't have that. It was like the bitterness was even throughout the taste.

[dmtaylor]

Blind triangle testing can't detect a predictible, easily discerned, predictable difference.  Therefore, if there is a difference, it is unpredictable.  Sounds like a 50/50 random sample kind of thing, where in my book, this equals no benefit.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Blind triangle testing can't detect a predictible, easily discerned, predictable difference.  Therefore, if there is a difference, it is unpredictable.  Sounds like a 50/50 random sample kind of thing, where in my book, this equals no benefit.

The AHA seminar site is still down. Do you have any hard data to back that up? 

[neddles]

I think this is what CWG is talking about. Correct me if I am wrong. I seem to remember the experiment being carried out by the guy who runs Bell's Brewing's home-brew shop. Was on Basic Brewing Radio a little while ago.

 

Streaming mp3

 

…and part 2

 

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[dmtaylor]

nettles beat me to it.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I think this is what CWG is talking about. Correct me if I am wrong. I seem to remember the experiment being carried out by the guy who runs Bell's Brewing's home-brew shop. Was on Basic Brewing Radio a little while ago.

 

Streaming mp3

 

…and part 2

 

Streaming mp3

Thanks! That's the guy I was thinking of. I'd like to see their data. In the second podcast, they said 5 of 6 or 6 of 7 of the Bell's tasting panel thought the FWH beer had the most hop character. But they didn't say which was preferred by the panel.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I finally got to the AHA presentation. 

 

FWH is 110% utilization of a 60 minute addition while MH is 30-35%

[positiveContact]

an extra 10% on a highly hopped beer could be detectable.

Edited by Evil_Morty, 30 October 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

an extra 10% on a highly hopped beer could be detectable.

True. But maybe not what you'd want.

 

This is floating around everywhere I google for FWH:

https://brewery.org/...ry/1stwort.html

 

 

[color=rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;]FWH beers were overwhelmingly preferred over the reference beers in triangular taste tests [/color]

[color=rgb(96,48,0);font-family:verdana, arial, 'free-sans', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(252,252,244);] [/color]

BUT... FWH is beneficial for noble hop, German style beers but not necessarily for American styles.

 

https://books.google...hopping&f=false

 

This method is not suited for beer that require volatile hop oil presence or fruity hop aroma.

[HVB]

[color=rgb(96,48,0);font-family:verdana, arial, 'free-sans', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(252,252,244);] [/color]

BUT... FWH is beneficial for noble hop, German style beers but not necessarily for American styles.

As the OP I feel I should say that this beer will be of German decent with 100% Hallertau

[positiveContact]

I often use FWH on my german lagers.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I've been doing a 60 minute addition but may switch to FWH on my German styles.

[Brauer]

I FWH everything. It's particularly appropriate for German lagers and Altsl, but I've never found a reason not to FWH British and American hops and styles.