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Barrel Time


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#1 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:14 AM

Its that time of year when beer comes out of the barrels and new beer goes back in. The 23yr Pappy Barrel has a Biere de Garde(ish).  Ish meaning we used a grain bill and Sac strain that closely resembled that style. It was moved into the barrel and WL Trios was pitched. This barrel also has a tasty host(s) that has been living there for the past 7 years. Its time to put new beer back into the barrel.[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"] I'm looking for ideas for the next style. [/font]It will most likely be Pils based. Should it be a mixed fermentation like we have been doing or should we put raw wort into the barrel and introduce new microorganisms? 

 

The other barrel is a Solera which is a Flanders Red. This will be the third pull from the barrel. We take 20g out and put that amount plus some evaporation loss of raw wort back into it. The organisms we introduced into the barrel 3 yrs ago do their magic for a year then the process starts all over again. I highly recommend those that want to get into barrel aging to do a Solera. The first fill is a lot of wort but after that its easy to replace. I'm planning on getting a second Solera barrel going in the spring. Not that the current Solera batches needs blending but it would be fun to start blending. 

 

There are stainless screws in the heads of each barrel below the pellicle to grab samples. These two beers will be a joy to sip on for the following year or two. To be honest with you guys Sour beers is what keeps me motivated to brew beer. I became bored with brewing years ago and went through many funks. Now its the funk in beer that gets me excited. Its a continuous study and experimentation which is what is so appealing.  That and hops. Glorious hops! 

 

Other Sour beers I'm playing with are.... 

 

Berliner Weisse

Experimental American Sour using free wort some of us got from our local pub "The Almighty Freestate". Lacto Brevis, Sac, and Brett B

Oud Bruin using the PC WY strain. Maybe fruit, maybe not

The planned 100% Brett IpA group brew. What? Mixing Glorious Hops and Brett. Together? Awesome! 

 

Anyways sorry for the wind, I get excited this time of year. Its what keeps me brewing! 


Edited by BlKtRe, 28 October 2014 - 07:17 AM.


#2 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:24 AM

How about a roggenbier? 



#3 HVB

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:30 AM

Sour wheat wine?



#4 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:47 AM

How about a roggenbier? 

 

Hmmmm, and the grist plays well with the organisms....

 

Sour wheat wine?

 

What OG are you thinking?



#5 HVB

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:03 AM

 

What OG are you thinking?

 About 1.090.  Assuming you are going to get a good attenuation from the bugs I was figured a ABV of around 11%



#6 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:14 AM

 About 1.090.  Assuming you are going to get a good attenuation from the bugs I was figured a ABV of around 11%

 

That means a huge grain bill for 60g  :)



#7 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:10 AM

Fruit beer? I'm a big fan of Goose Island Juliet. 8% ABV, pale, rye and munich, 15 ibus. Aged in wine barrels with blackberries. 



#8 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:20 AM

Fruit beer? I'm a big fan of Goose Island Juliet. 8% ABV, pale, rye and munich, 15 ibus. Aged in wine barrels with blackberries. 

 

Good idea. Adding fruit to barrels can be a PIA. But keeping open to the idea. Not sure where to get fruit this time of year without preservatives added.



#9 HVB

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:51 AM

That means a huge grain bill for 60g   :)

Yes, sorry did not scale up in my head.



#10 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

You could get the base beer going now and hit it with the blackberries when they come in season. Should be spring.



#11 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:57 AM

You could get the base beer going now and hit it with the blackberries when they come in season. Should be spring.

 

Which would allow the organisms and Brett to get going well. 



#12 Genesee Ted

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:23 PM

Good idea. Adding fruit to barrels can be a PIA. But keeping open to the idea. Not sure where to get fruit this time of year without preservatives added.

I would buy frozen puree or just get fruit juice.  Not cheap, but it will probably be pretty excellent.  This isn't a money saving endeavor anyway.  

 

I just bottled 55ish gallons of another Flemish.  This time aged in a Cab barrel for about 18 months.  So freakin good!!!!  We are going to refill this one.  My old Pinot barrel from the legendary Roselare thread from the Greenboard is still around, although it needs the attention of a cooper.  My friend does this as a hobby, so I am going to have him give it a once over so we can start filling that again.



#13 BlKtRe

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

Yup barrels are fun. We never allow our barrels to be empty. It doesn't take long at all for the staves to dry out. Plus we want the hosts to stay alive. We keg when the next batch is ready to go in. A quick hot water rinse then new beer gets pumped in immediately.This year's batch will be number 8 for the Pappy barrel.I've used Kudson juice many times with good luck on other projects. Pricey as you say.

Edited by BlKtRe, 28 October 2014 - 07:10 PM.


#14 matt6150

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 07:21 AM

So the quick hot rinse of the barrel before the next batch gets put in doesn't rinse out or kill the bugs in there?

#15 JMcG

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 07:24 AM

BGS for the Pappy.



#16 HVB

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 07:45 AM

So the quick hot rinse of the barrel before the next batch gets put in doesn't rinse out or kill the bugs in there?

Bugs will be in the wood too so so me may get washed , I will let BlKtRe talk to that, but other will still be there.  I have heard brett can go as deep as a 1/4 inch into wood.



#17 BlKtRe

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 08:13 AM

BGS for the Pappy.

 

The first time it was unbelievable. Plus its such a easy grain bill. 

 

Bugs will be in the wood too so so me may get washed , I will let BlKtRe talk to that, but other will still be there.  I have heard brett can go as deep as a 1/4 inch into wood.

 

Correct. Getting the old trub and pellicle out is important.

 

Rinsing between batches does a few things. It reduces beer stone that could potentially clog the pores of the wood so the Brett living deep in the wood will have a chance to do their thing. It also removes any weak organisms allowing the stronger ones to have a better affect on the wort. My comment about not letting a barrel to dry is mold and other unwanted bacteria can get started and not allowing the wanted, stronger organisms to be as active. I also think that reintroducing Brett or other organisms into barrels with fresh batches keeps a better environment for them to grow properly so you get the flavor profiles we are hoping for. 

 

The char on our Pappy barrel is getting pretty thin after 23 yrs of use housing the whiskey and now 8 yrs of housing our beers. So as long as this barrel is still producing good quality batches we will continue to keep it around. Hope this helps explain more of what I said. Comments are welcome. 


Edited by BlKtRe, 29 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.


#18 matt6150

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 09:31 AM

The first time it was unbelievable. Plus its such a easy grain bill. 

 

 

Correct. Getting the old trub and pellicle out is important.

 

Rinsing between batches does a few things. It reduces beer stone that could potentially clog the pores of the wood so the Brett living deep in the wood will have a chance to do their thing. It also removes any weak organisms allowing the stronger ones to have a better affect on the wort. My comment about not letting a barrel to dry is mold and other unwanted bacteria can get started and not allowing the wanted, stronger organisms to be as active. I also think that reintroducing Brett or other organisms into barrels with fresh batches keeps a better environment for them to grow properly so you get the flavor profiles we are hoping for. 

 

The char on our Pappy barrel is getting pretty thin after 23 yrs of use housing the whiskey and now 8 yrs of housing our beers. So as long as this barrel is still producing good quality batches we will continue to keep it around. Hope this helps explain more of what I said. Comments are welcome. 

Cool, sounds easy enough. So speaking of barrels. With a 10 gallon barrel that is charred and fresh with whiskey just being removed. How many batches of beer should be run through there before doing a long age on something as to not over power it with whiskey/char flavor?



#19 BlKtRe

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 11:28 AM

Cool, sounds easy enough. So speaking of barrels. With a 10 gallon barrel that is charred and fresh with whiskey just being removed. How many batches of beer should be run through there before doing a long age on something as to not over power it with whiskey/char flavor?

 

There is no general rule. For us it takes 3 batches which seems to be the norm from what others have noted. We always do a big Impy Stout for the first beer. Ive never done a sour in a barrel that size before. I do know contact time will be drastically shorter since it doesnt take long for barrel character to come through since the surface area:volume is larger:smaller. Also o2 becomes an issue for the same reason. More o2 the more acidic the beer will become. Some acidic is welcome in a Flanders Red but other sour styles not so much. So its possible you will need to allow the Brett and other organisms to continue to do their thing in packaging. Russian River will sometimes add even more Brett to bottles. So why not a keg? Thats the cool thing about sours, its all about experimentation to find out what you will come up with. 


Edited by BlKtRe, 29 October 2014 - 11:30 AM.


#20 matt6150

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:13 PM

There is no general rule. For us it takes 3 batches which seems to be the norm from what others have noted. We always do a big Impy Stout for the first beer. Ive never done a sour in a barrel that size before. I do know contact time will be drastically shorter since it doesnt take long for barrel character to come through since the surface area:volume is larger:smaller. Also o2 becomes an issue for the same reason. More o2 the more acidic the beer will become. Some acidic is welcome in a Flanders Red but other sour styles not so much. So its possible you will need to allow the Brett and other organisms to continue to do their thing in packaging. Russian River will sometimes add even more Brett to bottles. So why not a keg? Thats the cool thing about sours, its all about experimentation to find out what you will come up with.

I see, so basically its not the greatest idea to do a Solera in a 10gal barrel? I wonder how small you could get without it being a problem. I'm also not up to speed on brett and what it brings to the table vs other bugs. I mean I have had 100% brett fermented beers before and they were not sour, just funky I would say. And then I have had plenty of sours that say there is brett in there. So I'm curious where the sour comes from, another strain of bugs I assume.

Edited by matt6150, 29 October 2014 - 12:14 PM.



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