55 replies to this topic

[passlaku]

I have tried to replicate Denny's philosophy in regard to brewing. I don't want to be overly fussy, and certainly don't want to add steps that don't make my beer better.  What I wonder is how Denny tackles salt editions and water chemistry in general?  Is there a easy (like batch sparging easy) to treating water?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[HVB]

I just heard Ken's head explode!

[positiveContact]

the short answer - not really relative to what most people do.  you get the water report, you plug it into some kind of water chemistry tool.  then on every batch you plug in the variables (grain and water) and then add the salts to get the mash pH and flavor profile you want.  I'm not sure how to shortcut this one unless you make essentially the same beer all the time.

[HVB]

the short answer - not really relative to what most people do.  you get the water report, you plug it into some kind of water chemistry tool.  then on every batch you plug in the variables (grain and water) and then add the salts to get the mash pH and flavor profile you want.  I'm not sure how to shortcut this one unless you make essentially the same beer all the time.

Pretty sure you are correct.  Even though I make a lot of hoppy beers and use a similar water profile the additions are always slightly different because of the grain bill.

[positiveContact]

Pretty sure you are correct.  Even though I make a lot of hoppy beers and use a similar water profile the additions are always slightly different because of the grain bill.

 

it is true that it's a lot less sensitive than we give it credit for but I figure why risk it when it takes very little time to make sure I'm landing at the pH I want.

[HVB]

it is true that it's a lot less sensitive than we give it credit for but I figure why risk it when it takes very little time to make sure I'm landing at the pH I want.

Very true.  I also tend to err on the low side when making additions. 

 

To the OP.  If you have not had your water tested that would be a good place to start and then add the values to a program like Bru'n water and pick a profile to just get an idea of where your water stacks up.  The site also has a great deal of information on water chemistry that is good to read and for me re-read!

[positiveContact]

Very true.  I also tend to err on the low side when making additions. 

 

To the OP.  If you have not had your water tested that would be a good place to start and then add the values to a program like Bru'n water and pick a profile to just get an idea of where your water stacks up.  The site also has a great deal of information on water chemistry that is good to read and for me re-read!

 

if someone wants to maintain the "terroir" of their local water they could add acid to the mash just to hit the right pH.  I've never looked into it but maybe there is an easy way to measure a mash pH and then know how much acid you need to add just based on the mash size or something.  that could get fairly straightforward once you had a simple calculator to figure out how much acid to put in.

[denny]

I have tried to replicate Denny's philosophy in regard to brewing. I don't want to be overly fussy, and certainly don't want to add steps that don't make my beer better.  What I wonder is how Denny tackles salt editions and water chemistry in general?  Is there a easy (like batch sparging easy) to treating water?

 

Thanks.

 

Good question and there are two sides to it...yeah, I hate doing stuff I don't have to do.  And weighing salt additions can be a fiddly bit that sometimes drives me crazy.  But I feel like my beers are better for doing it, so I'll continue.  That's the other half of that philosophy...do whatever it takes to make good beer, but be sure the effort is worth it.  At this point, I do.  And finally, I'm enjoying the learning experience of playing with water.  Enjoyment should be a big part of what we do.  Make the best beer possible with the least effort possible while having the best time possible!

[neddles]

To the OP.  If you have not had your water tested that would be a good place to start and then add the values to a program like Bru'n water and pick a profile to just get an idea of where your water stacks up.  The site also has a great deal of information on water chemistry that is good to read and for me re-read!

This is where I would start. The first goal should be to be able to get your mash pH in the correct range for any given grist. Fiddle with the individual ions later if at all.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I would say that 80% of creating good brewing water is reducing the residual alkalinity for most people (I assume most people have hard water in the US). I think that alone will help make better beer. I'd say the other 20% is futzing with the mineral levels. 

 

I have hard water. I still have to add gypsum to my hoppy beers to really make the flavor shine. In all cases except for stouts and other beers with high roasted malt content, I acidify the mash/sparge water to reduce the residual alkalinity.

 

This won't work for everyone, but it will for a lot of municipal water sources in the gulf coast region.

 

None of the breweries around here that produce any larger quantity of beer futz with their profile any more than I do. They still make great beer.

[positiveContact]

for most stouts I could stand to add acidify the mash slightly but I could also just leave it alone which I often do.

[passlaku]

Thanks for the responses.  Very insightful stuff.  After reading these responses I think the next thing to tackle is better understanding mash pH.  I found this video that seems helpful:

 

https://brulosophy.c...and-brun-water/

 

This guy has a really cool website.  Check out his other posts. 

[positiveContact]

bru'n water is what I use to do my mash/water chemistry stuff.  it's been working great so far.

[HVB]

bru'n water is what I use to do my mash/water chemistry stuff.  it's been working great so far.

Same here

[denny]

for most stouts I could stand to add acidify the mash slightly but I could also just leave it alone which I often do.

 

Really?  The dark grains don't acidify it enough?

Thanks for the responses.  Very insightful stuff.  After reading these responses I think the next thing to tackle is better understanding mash pH.  I found this video that seems helpful:

 

https://brulosophy.c...and-brun-water/

 

This guy has a really cool website.  Check out his other posts. 

 

Marshall is a great guy.  He's one of the IGORs for experimentalbrew.com .  He also posted the first review of our book on his site!

[positiveContact]

Really?  The dark grains don't acidify it enough?

 

for something with a good amount of roasted grain and some crystal I'll often end up around 5.4-5.5.  I usually like to push things down to about 5.3 to be safe but sometimes I don't.  if it was something maybe not completely pitch black I'm guessing I'd want to add a little calcium chloride.

[denny]

for something with a good amount of roasted grain and some crystal I'll often end up around 5.4-5.5.  I usually like to push things down to about 5.3 to be safe but sometimes I don't.  if it was something maybe not completely pitch black I'm guessing I'd want to add a little calcium chloride.

 

FWIW, Martin has said that darker beers are better off toward the higher end of the scale.  I agree with that.  Your 5.4-5 is just about perfect. Of course, results are what count.

[positiveContact]

FWIW, Martin has said that darker beers are better off toward the higher end of the scale.  I agree with that.  Your 5.4-5 is just about perfect. Of course, results are what count.

 

I get skeered of the tannins so I tend to shoot to the low end on most things.  I had heard about the 5.4-5.5 for dark beers which is why on my last stout I just "let it ride!!!"  it turned out pretty well but I have yet to make a stout that really wows me.  I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[neddles]

I get skeered of the tannins so I tend to shoot to the low end on most things.  I had heard about the 5.4-5.5 for dark beers which is why on my last stout I just "let it ride!!!"  it turned out pretty well but I have yet to make a stout that really wows me.  I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

What are they lacking?

[Big Nake]

I had one of my site members email me (I don't think he's a member here) asking about water. He mentioned that his beers have a bit of a seltzer thing going on. I asked him how he treated his water and he said he added some gypsum for calcium. I asked him if he knew his numbers and he sent them to me. His calcium was low (I forget the number) and his chloride was 5ppm while his sulfate was 50ppm. I described what sulfates and chlorides will do for the beer and he immediately knew that he should be adding a bit of chloride for styles that would benefit from it and he got back to me to say that a beer he made was much smoother and 'fuller' with the adjustment. My approach is to keep the numbers relatively modest, tweak the balance between chlorides and sulfates based on style and keep using the pH meter to make sure mash pH is correct. I want the salt additions to work with everything else, not jump out of the glass at you.