25 replies to this topic

[bigdaddyale]

Do you need to stir after first batch sparge?

Mash ,drain

batch sparge #1 ,stir ,vorlauf,drain

batch sparge #2,? ,drain

[Bklmt2000]

BDA, i do what you describe above, except i only do 1 batch sparge, not 2. 

 

I'd suggest stirring well after adding your batch sparge water, each time you add sparge water.

 

If you just add the sparge water, without stirring the grain bed, your efficiency could suffer.

 

The process you're suggesting above sounds fine to me. 

[bigdaddyale]

interesting you only do 1 batch sparge.on a 7 gallon boil that would be min. of 5 gallon sparge.I thought that big of a sparge would cause tannins on a five gallon batch

[Big Nake]

I also do one sparge. Mash, recirc, drain, add sparge water, stir, [get sparge pH], recirc, drain.

[matt6150]

interesting you only do 1 batch sparge.on a 7 gallon boil that would be min. of 5 gallon sparge.I thought that big of a sparge would cause tannins on a five gallon batch

Then add more water to your mash.

[Big Nake]

I used to do the mash and two sparges. I did that for years and somewhere in there I saw that everyone had moved to 1 mash + 1 sparge. It's very possible that people thought two sparges would be better because it might avoid the tannin issue BDA mentioned. So I did 4 gallons of mash water plus 4 gallons of sparge water. Then I tilted it a little to 4.5 and 3.5 to keep the sparge volume lower. You might also consider the mash thickness/thinness in there as well. I used to hear things like "English beers benefit from a thick mash", etc. and I'm not sure how much of that is relevant anymore. What beers benefit from thick or thin mashes? Most of my beers end up in the same OG zip code so I can use the same process pretty much every time.

[bigdaddyale]

My next question is  at what point is the water to grain ratio detrimental and what is the optimal W:G ratio.

Edited by bigdaddyale, 20 November 2014 - 11:59 PM.

[positiveContact]

interesting you only do 1 batch sparge.on a 7 gallon boil that would be min. of 5 gallon sparge.I thought that big of a sparge would cause tannins on a five gallon batch

 

I don't think it would matter much if you did it as one big one or two smaller ones in terms of tannin extraction.  just my gut feeling.

 

My next question is  at what point is the water to grain ratio detrimental and what is the optimal W:G ratio.

 

it's a pretty gentle roll off and even then, who cares?  a lot of people no sparge.  generally, I now fill up my mash tun to capacity (so a pretty thin mash) and then sparge with 2-3 gallons of water.  this is for a 10 gallon batch.  my efficiencies are fine (usually around 80% into the fermentor) and quality has not suffered.

[Bklmt2000]

My next question is  at what point is the water to grain ratio detrimental

Detrimental?  Beats me.  I generally mash 1.5 quarts of water to 1 lb of grist.

 

I've used this ratio for several years, and it's worked well for me.  Anywhere from 1-2 quarts of water/lb of grist will lead to starch conversion in the mash.

 

What ratio of mash water:grist do you use now?

 

and what is the optimal W:G ratio.

I don't know that there is an "optimal" water:grist ratio.

 

This will depend on your setup (everyone's is different), but I'd say use whatever ratio gets you 1) the beer that you think tastes the best and 2) the efficiency you're looking for.

 

Denny's website (https://dennybrew.com/) got me started ~9 years ago in batch sparging and it really helped me out.  Give it a read.

Edited by Bklmt2000, 21 November 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[Brauer]

what is the optimal W:G ratio.

Probably ~1.75 qt/# or more. I shoot for 2 qt/# as a rough target.

[Clintama]

I've started going with a very thin mash and then a single sparge.. 

[neddles]

My process is full volume mash in a bag. My small beers have topped 4qts./#. I haven't seen any issues.

[positiveContact]

I've started going with a very thin mash and then a single sparge.. 

 

same here.  I'd actually go to no sparge but my cooler can't quite handle that much liquid for most of my beers.

[Poptop]

I always 'try' to utilize half my water in the mash and half for the sparge. 7.5 pre boil gallons is the target, 9 total gallons seems to be the magic number for the majority of my beers.

[positiveContact]

I always 'try' to utilize half my water in the mash and half for the sparge. 7.5 pre boil gallons is the target, 9 total gallons seems to be the magic number for the majority of my beers.

 

def no problem with doing this.  I'd say there is also no problem with doing minimal or no sparge beers.  overall I'd say it all works well.  once you get enough water:grain I don't think going thinner generally hurts your conversion or anything.  your efficiency may drop slightly as you use less and less sparge water but you trade that for some amount of tannin extraction (some people are more sensitive to this than others).  I've done some minimal sparge beers and they have been great.  it works well for my setup.  I've also done plenty of beers where I matched the mash and sparge runoff like many people do and those have also been great.

 

the process is pretty accommodating of different mash thicknesses and sparge volumes.

[Clintama]

I always 'try' to utilize half my water in the mash and half for the sparge. 7.5 pre boil gallons is the target, 9 total gallons seems to be the magic number for the majority of my beers.

I used to do that, but I quit worrying about . Except for large beers, I use the same quantity of water for mashing and sparging, regardless of the grain bill. 

[denny]

Do you need to stir after first batch sparge?

Mash ,drain

batch sparge #1 ,stir ,vorlauf,drain

batch sparge #2,? ,drain

 

My experience is that there's no reason to do more than one batch sparge.  I've found so little gain in efficiency that it isn't worth it to me.  AAMOF, if you do gain efficiency with a second sparge it's likely becasue your conversion wasn't complete in the first place.  In addition, every time you do another sparge you reduce the buffering power of the grain and increase the risk of tannin extraction.  My procedure is that I mash in and stir well.  Seal the cooler and let it rest.  Vorlauf the mash and runoff.  Stir in sparge water, vorlauf and run off again.

[denny]

My next question is  at what point is the water to grain ratio detrimental and what is the optimal W:G ratio.

 

I've gone over 2 qt./lb. and found no downside.  My effieincy increased when I went from 1.25 to 1.75 as my default ratio.  I base it on the size of the grist bill.  I use whatever ratio gets me in the ballpark of half of my total boil volume from the mash.

[Big Nake]

My procedure is that I mash in and stir well.  Seal the cooler and let it rest.  Vorlauf the mash and runoff.  Stir in sparge water, vorlauf and run off again.

Exactly my process along with checking pH & temp of mash and checking pH of sparge. Checking the pH of the sparge is a formality because I acidify the sparge water as it's heating and I already know that it's in the mid 5s so that measurement will probably stop in the future.

[Deerslyr]

For all of you guys with high ratios, did you find that it affected the amount of fermentable sugars?  I was always taught that one of the ways to generate unfermentable sugars and more mouthfeel was to mash in thick (temp being the other factor), whereas if you wanted a thinner beer with higher fermentability, mash in thin (or lower temp).

 

I tend to go for more mouthfeel most of the time, so I tend to mash in thick and high temp. This is the only thing that would really impact me on this issue.

 

Thoughts?