11 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

So I made a string of beers with the temporary Wyeast 2005 Mexican Cervesa yeast. A Victoria-type beer (my Hacienda recipe), a Mexican Red Lager, a Cervesa Clara and a sort of pale amber lager. I put this amber lager on tap a couple weeks ago after drinking some other beers. It tasted funky. Sort of aspirin-like, no depth, just BLEH. I put it back in the on-deck fridge and put something else in its place. Today I sampled the amber again and it was better and I realized what I did. This was pilsner, Vienna and 5 ounces of CaraBohemian in 5 gallons so the beer is pale. I used an ounce of noble hops as FWH and another ounce at 60, that's it. But when I designed the water, I used quite bit more CaSO4 than I ordinarily would. I guess I was hoping to boost the crispness. I also mashed low (149.8°) and the end result was that it was crisp and sharp. So I just boiled a small amount of water and added 1g of calcium chloride to it and added that directly to the keg with the hope of 'back-chloriding' it to bring out some maltiness and depth. I have done this in the past with good results... good enough to improve the batch greatly and save it from an untimely dumping. I suppose the lesson is to get all this shizz done properly the first time. Cheers.

Edited by KenLenard, 23 November 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[denny]

Good call on the recovery!

[SchwanzBrewer]

Nice!

[mabrungard]

Did the sulfate ruin your Noble hops? Some think it does. 

[Big Nake]

Did the sulfate ruin your Noble hops? Some think it does.

I think it was just too many things leaning in the same direction. In this case, low mash temp, a relatively pale beer, more sulfate than I would ordinarily use in a beer like this (still not sure where I was going with that... a momentary lapse of reason), etc. The beer was out of balance so the additional shot of chloride may right the ship. I'm going to try to sample some tonight and see if it helped. I have done this in the past by adding sulfate & chloride to the keg so fingers crossed.

[Big Nake]

I sampled the beer again yesterday and it was noticeably better but it still needed a little more so I boiled a bit more water and added another ½ gram of CaCl, adding that to the keg and had a couple glasses of this beer tonight and... yum. Crisis averted. This type of beer required water that was different than what I put together so... lesson learned. Cheers!

[positiveContact]

I've never bumped up chloride before.  I'm really not sure I could identify it.

[Big Nake]

I've never bumped up chloride before.  I'm really not sure I could identify it.

It's probably not about 'identifying' it but maybe 'missing' it when it's low or not there. I mentioned in another thread that a homebrewer emailed me about his beers coming out very dry and aspirin-like. He said there was no depth, no maltiness, etc. Finally he mentioned that his chloride was 5ppm and his SO4 was 50ppm and he was in the habit of adding only gypsum to his mash which of course would compound the problem. If you tasted a beer like that, you might not say, "Where's muh chloride!?" but you would know that something was out of balance. Chlorides produce a rounded smoothness and a 'malty fullness' to beer and that's what a beer like this needs. It's not a magic bullet and I wouldn't have been able to save this beer if it was some other goof I made but when I looked at how I put the water together, I saw my goof and knew I had a solution. Also, I have to keep reminding myself that with the beers I make (relatively simple), these mineral additions can have a big impact on the beer. I added only 1.2g of CaSO4 to this beer originally which is not a lot of gypsum but it was far more than I should have added. A little goes a long way. Cheers!

Edited by KenLenard, 27 November 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[matt6150]

It's probably not about 'identifying' it but maybe 'missing' it when it's low or not there. I mentioned in another thread that a homebrewer emailed me about his beers coming out very dry and aspirin-like. He said there was no depth, no maltiness, etc. Finally he mentioned that his chloride was 5ppm and his SO4 was 50ppm and he was in the habit of adding only gypsum to his mash which of course would compound the problem. If you tasted a beer like that, you might not say, "Where's muh chloride!?" but you would know that something was out of balance. Chlorides produce a rounded smoothness and a 'malty fullness' to beer and that's what a beer like this needs. It's not a magic bullet and I wouldn't have been able to save this beer if it was some other goof I made but when I looked at how I put the water together, I saw my goof and knew I had a solution. Also, I have to keep reminding myself that with the beers I make (relatively simple), these mineral additions can have a big impact on the beer. I added only 1.2g of CaSO4 to this beer originally which is not a lot of gypsum but it was far more than I should have added. A little goes a long way. Cheers!

I'm adding only 37g of CaSO4 to my next IPA, I hope it's enough!

[Dave McG]

I'm adding only 37g of CaSO4 to my next IPA, I hope it's enough!

Is that much even soluble? Or, are you on a big system? That just seems like so much that there has to be a page 3 reveal.

[matt6150]

Well it's a 13gal (10gal into the kegs after losses) batch of a big beer. I will be mashing in with 16gal of water, so 23g of gypsum there. Then sparging with another 6.5gal or so, so 9g more there. That's 32g, I guess my math was off the first time. There is also some CaCl2 additions. So with everything it should put my water at: Ca-123ppm, Mg-4ppm, Na-11ppm, SO4-214ppm,Cl-45ppm, Bicarb-42ppm. About normal for IPA's around here.

[positiveContact]

i've pushed my sulfate up even higher than that.  def no problem.