23 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

Peeps:  My FIL just got back from a trip to Spain and Portugal.  He says he has a few beer glasses for me (cool!) and that one of the unique glasses was for a unique beer he had called SUPER BOCK.  I have actually heard of this beer and there is a Clonebrews recipe (I know, I know) for it.  It's a "gold bock".  Trader Joe's also has a beer called Hofbrau Bock which is maybe a 6-SRM beer that has good body and depth.  I have 2 lager yeasts up and running and one is 2206 (the yeast called for in the Clonebrews recipe).  That recipe is basically pilsner and something like 4-8 ounces of CaraHell and Munich and then hops at 60, 15 and 5 to about 25 IBUs.  I'm thinking it needs more Munich and probably the LIGHT variety.  Has anyone made a "gold bock" before?  I'm thinking LIGHT MUNICH and Pilsner, possibly some DARK MUNICH but just a small amount, possibly the three hop additions but I don't know how a bock should be hopped honestly and then the 2206 which I can see as a good bock yeast.  Thoughts?

[denny]

Sounds like a maibock.

[Big Nake]

Sounds like a maibock.

Right. I have also seen it referred to as HELLES BOCK which would mean "light bock". So help me formulate a recipe! All LIGHT MUNICH so I would get some good depth and a color around SRM 6? Magnum for bittering and then some Hallertau at 15, Tettnanger at 5 and 2206? I would not get the beer into the Maibock ABV range of 7% or so but I could see it getting into the mid 5s or approaching 6.

[Bklmt2000]

When I've made helles-/mai-bocks in the past, I've used a combo of Pils and Munich malts to get the SRM and OG i'm looking for, which worked out well.

 

That said, plug your all-munich grain bill into Beersmith/Promash/whatever you use, and if too dark, consider cutting the Munich with some Pils malt.

 

The hop bill/schedule looks really good, and 2206 should work well, too. 

[Big Nake]

I happen to have a full 55-pound sack of Avangard German Pils and I have at least 15 pounds of Best Malz Munich 10 but I only have about 2 pounds of Best Malz Munich 6. I could use the Munich 10 in a lower percentage and make the rest up with Pilsner and just try to hit the SRM I want but the question is whether the beer would be better with more Munich 6 (like almost 100%) or less Munich 10 (like around 20%) to reach the same color.

[Bklmt2000]

Brew 2 batches, one with more Munich 6 and the other with less Munich 10, and see which one you like better?

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

At 5.2% Super Bock seems more like a pale lager than a MaiBock

[Big Nake]

At 5.2% Super Bock seems more like a pale lager than a MaiBock

Well, I mentioned that I could bump it up a bit and I'm envisioning something maltier than a pale lager and leaning more towards a bock because of the character of the 2206 which produces a heavier and maltier-tasting beer. I looked around and found a bunch of vague recipes that called for "MUNICH MALT" but it didn't specify. Another site called for "VERY LIGHT MUNICH MALT... BETWEEN 6L and 10L". Oh, that narrows it down. I have a recipe put together with about 78% pils, 18% Munich 10 and some Aromatic for added maltiness. I get an SRM of 6 on that and I can scale it to make it a little bigger.

Brew 2 batches, one with more Munich 6 and the other with less Munich 10, and see which one you like better?

Seems reasonable. I would have to go to the LHBS for the MUNICH LIGHT but it might be the only way to tell because I envision the one with more MUNICH LIGHT being better for some reason.

[positiveContact]

my maibock:

 

6.5lbs pilsen

6 lbs vienna

1 lbs munich (light)

 

mashed at 153

 

1 oz of hallertau at 15 minutes, and then enough magnum at 90 to get me up to about 30-35 IBU.

 

fermented on 2308 at 51F.

 

OG:  1.069

FG:  1.012

 

If I remember correctly I enjoyed the beer.  I remember this was one of the few times I repitched yeast from a yeast cake.  I believe there was a minor off flavor from this but nothing that didn't age out.  It def had plenty of body and alcohol!

[Big Nake]

my maibock:   6.5lbs pilsen 6 lbs vienna 1 lbs munich (light)   mashed at 153   1 oz of hallertau at 15 minutes, and then enough magnum at 90 to get me up to about 30-35 IBU.   fermented on 2308 at 51F.   OG:  1.069 FG:  1.012   If I remember correctly I enjoyed the beer.  I remember this was one of the few times I repitched yeast from a yeast cake.  I believe there was a minor off flavor from this but nothing that didn't age out.  It def had plenty of body and alcohol!

I didn't consider Vienna but I have a bunch of that too. I'm going to noodle with it a bit and see what I come up with. My next beer will be an ale with 1056 but the batch after that is going to be this Helles Bock so I need to get some direction. All of these iterations seem perfectly reasonable to me and with most of them being relatively straightforward, the magic may just be in the execution and the quality of the ingredients (as is often the case). Thanks gang.

[Big Nake]

Morty: I'm using the Vienna idea and running into the hills with it. I'm going to use Vienna as 50% of the grain bill and I'm going to just throw this recipe up on the wall here and you guys pick it apart and tell me what you think.

Helles Bock

5 lbs Best Malz Vienna Malt
2 lbs Best Malz Pilsner Malt
1.5 lbs Best Malz Munich 6L
1.5 lbs Best Malz Munich 10L
.38 ounces Magnum pellets @ 12.1% for 60 mins (19.2 IBU)
1 ounce Hallertau pellets @ 2.7% for 15 mins
1 ounce Tettnanger pellets @ 2.4% for 5 mins
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager yeast

OG: 1.055, FG: 1.014, IBU: 27, SRM: 6, ABV: 5.3%

100% filtered tap water, balanced ratio but leaning towards chlorides a bit. Mash temp 152°, single infusion mash for 60 minutes. I know most of you would prefer to see this higher and if that were the case... I would add more pilsner malt to get it a little higher.

[positiveContact]

I think it will be delicious beer.  how do you like 2206?  never used it.  does it not attenuate much and that's why you are expecting the sort of high FG?

Edited by Evil_Morty, 26 November 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Big Nake]

I think it will be delicious beer.  how do you like 2206?  never used it.  does it not attenuate much and that's why you are expecting the sort of high FG?

I don't know if that FG is accurate and my guess is that it will be a little lower. Hard to describe 2206 but it's a Bavarian lager yeast that produces some delicious beers. It's similar enough to 2308 that people will use it as a substitute. 2308 is "Munich" and 2206 is "Bavarian" so they're obviously close. 2206 produces a beer that seems to accentuate maltiness (as 2308 does) and it does not really have that pilsnery character that comes from 2124, 2278, etc. White Labs equivalents are maybe 838 or 833 or 820.

[positiveContact]

sounds like it is worth a shot. 

[Big Nake]

I'm going to make it this way and it could be Friday or Sunday depending on what else is happening. I might be able to sneak in 2 brewdays this weekend but it's tough to tell. If anyone else has insight on this style, please let me know if I have taken a wrong turn. Cheers.

[Brauer]

From my recollection, Super Bock was essentially a slightly high gravity Helles. Todd Alstom describes it as "more like a malt liquor vs a bock of any type."

 

The Trader Joe's Hofbrau Bock is Gordon Biersch Maibock, which is a pretty decent Helles Bock.

 

I think Morty's recipe looks like a good approach for a Maibock.

[denny]

Right. I have also seen it referred to as HELLES BOCK which would mean "light bock". So help me formulate a recipe! All LIGHT MUNICH so I would get some good depth and a color around SRM 6? Magnum for bittering and then some Hallertau at 15, Tettnanger at 5 and 2206? I would not get the beer into the Maibock ABV range of 7% or so but I could see it getting into the mid 5s or approaching 6.

 

Ah. OK, easy peasy....this one is a lot like Capitol's, which I love.  The reason for 2 different kinds of bittering hops is that's what I had on hand!  Feel free to use you favorite nobles....

 

# 369 Blonde Dopplebock A ProMash Recipe Report Recipe Specifics ---------------- Batch Size (Gal): 5.50   Wort Size (Gal):   5.50 Total Grain (Lbs): 16.50 Anticipated OG:   1.078   Plato: 18.88 Anticipated SRM: 6.9 Anticipated IBU:   28.1 Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 % Wort Boil Time: 60   Minutes Pre-Boil Amounts ---------------- Evaporation Rate: 1.50   Gallons Per Hour Pre-Boil Wort Size:   7.00   Gal Pre-Boil Gravity:   1.061   SG   15.04  Plato Grain/Extract/Sugar % Amount Name   Origin   Potential SRM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------  93.9   15.50 lbs. Pilsener   Germany   1.038   2   1.5 0.25 lbs. CaraVienne Malt Belgium   1.034 22   3.0 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium   1.036 25   1.5 0.25 lbs. Melanoidin Malt   1.033 35 Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon. Hops Amount Name   Form   Alpha  IBU  Boil Time -----------------------------------------------------------------------------   1.00 oz.   Spalter Spalt Pellet 3.00 9.5  60 min.   1.00 oz.   Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.30  13.6  60 min.   1.00 oz.   Czech Saaz   Pellet 4.40 5.0  10 min. Extras   Amount   Name Type   Time --------------------------------------------------------------------------   0.50 Unit(s)Whirlfloc   Fining 5 Min.(boil)   0.50 Tsp   Yeast Nutrient Other 10 Min.(boil) Yeast ----- WYeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Mash Schedule ------------- Mash Name: Total Grain Lbs: 16.50 Total Water Qts: 17.00 - Before Additional Infusions Total Water Gal:   4.25 - Before Additional Infusions Tun Thermal Mass: 0.13 Grain Temp:   65.00 F Step Rest Start Stop  Heat Infuse Infuse  Infuse Step Name   Time Time Temp   Temp  Type Temp Amount  Ratio --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- p rest 0 15   132 132 Infuse 148 17.00 1.03 sacc 0 60   155 155 Infuse 212   8.19 1.53 Total Water Qts: 25.19 - After Additional Infusions Total Water Gal:   6.30 - After Additional Infusions Total Mash Volume Gal:   7.62 - After Additional Infusions All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit. All infusion amounts are in Quarts. All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.  

[positiveContact]

From my recollection, Super Bock was essentially a slightly high gravity Helles. Todd Alstom describes it as "more like a malt liquor vs a bock of any type."

 

The Trader Joe's Hofbrau Bock is Gordon Biersch Maibock, which is a pretty decent Helles Bock.

 

I think Morty's recipe looks like a good approach for a Maibock.

 

I'm really missing a clean and full bodied lager.  I know it might not be a great example but I have fond memories of dead guy ale which is sort of maibockish.

[Big Nake]

Brewed this beer early this morning and used the recipe I laid out in post 11. Wort was a dark gold color that looked prefect for what I was going for. Everything went smoothly and it's in the fridge set to 47°.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Noice!