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which german beers from this list do you think are the best?


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#21 positiveContact

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:16 PM

That indefinable "something"!  :)  JZ's recipe for it is in BCs, but after brewing it twice I've found it's too thick and sweet.  Ayinger dunkel kinda defines maltiness without sweetness.  I just can't get the body and malt flavor right.

 

how does the recipe look now?



#22 neddles

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:31 PM

That indefinable "something"!  :)  JZ's recipe for it is in BCs, but after brewing it twice I've found it's too thick and sweet.  Ayinger dunkel kinda defines maltiness without sweetness.  I just can't get the body and malt flavor right.

Is Ayinger's yeast available from one of the major yeast houses?



#23 denny

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:54 PM

Is Ayinger's yeast available from one of the major yeast houses?

 

 

IIRC, it's WLP833.  Maybe 830?  Been a long time.

how does the recipe look now?

 

In limbo.  For my next try, I'll go back to some older recipes that I recall as being a bit closer.  Look them over and try to combine all the best of each.



#24 positiveContact

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:59 PM

In limbo.  For my next try, I'll go back to some older recipes that I recall as being a bit closer.  Look them over and try to combine all the best of each.

 

I was just wondering b/c of the desire for malty without sweetness.



#25 Brauer

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:21 PM

Is Ayinger's yeast available from one of the major yeast houses?

WLP833 is said to be the Ayinger yeast, and that seems possible.

Is the Jahrhundert a Dortmunder or a Helles? I was under the impression that it was a Dort and Morty's description up top says it's an "EXPORT-STYLE". I suppose it's possible that some Dorts are very helles-like these days.

A lot of places seem to call it a Dortmunder, but I think I'd call it a Helles and it won the World Beer Championship as a Helles.  

 

The best Helles is probably the Andechs, while DAB is the archetypal Dortmunder (though not my favorite). Since you can get all 3 in the US, these days, you could compare them side by side to see what you think. I'll have to try that, but I'd say the Ayinger is closer to the Andechs than the DAB. On the right day, I might go the other way, I suppose, since they are not hugely different styles.



#26 positiveContact

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:13 PM

ayinger dunkel was excellent (I'm awaiting the recipe details for that one, my gut tells me something like 75% munich, enough dehusked roasted grain to get the color in the ballpark and the remainder pilsen and acid malt (if that is your pH adjuster of choice).  mash 152F.  maybe 30 IBUs of something pretty neutral.  low sulfate water, maybe a touch of chloride.

 

spaten on tap is better than when I've had it from the bottle for sure.  very enjoyable experience all around.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 17 January 2015 - 01:39 PM.


#27 positiveContact

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 08:19 AM

reading the reviews on beer advocate and rate beer on the ayinger dunkel make me sad for the beer drinking community.  so many misguided comments.  I also have to wonder if most of these reviewers are drinking a fresh bottle.



#28 Brauer

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 05:44 PM

reading the reviews on beer advocate and rate beer on the ayinger dunkel make me sad for the beer drinking community.  so many misguided comments.  I also have to wonder if most of these reviewers are drinking a fresh bottle.

If they put a quarter pound of hops in every bottle, made it 7% ABV, or made a sour version, it would score better. They would ruin it, but it would score better.


Edited by Brauer, 19 January 2015 - 05:46 PM.


#29 Big Nake

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:47 PM

This is why I pay no attention to BeerAdvocate, RateBeer or any of that. Someone recently posted that the top 10 beers on both sites are 100+ IBUs, 10% or both. Morty, always keep in mind that you have probably forgotten more brewing & beer information than most of those people ever had in the first place. Also remember that you should drink what you like and that may change for any given situation. I have looked up many, many beers on those sites and they always rank low, poor, etc. because they're not the big, hoppy, sour, bourbon-barrel whatever beers. I should say that I have absolutely no issue with beers like that but they're not the only beers around.

#30 neddles

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:23 PM

While I don't disagree with what you guys are saying (especially WRT the uselessness of ratings sites) you have to consider too that there are an awful lot of great imported beers that are hard for many people to get fresh or unabused.  Also, not everyone can get to Germany or the Czech Republic to drink certain beers in their native state and therefor may have no idea what they are supposed to taste like. When I finally get around to making a Bohemian Pilsner I suspect it's going to be the best example of the style I've ever had... by far.



#31 Big Nake

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 06:57 PM

While I don't disagree with what you guys are saying (especially WRT the uselessness of ratings sites) you have to consider too that there are an awful lot of great imported beers that are hard for many people to get fresh or unabused.  Also, not everyone can get to Germany or the Czech Republic to drink certain beers in their native state and therefor may have no idea what they are supposed to taste like. When I finally get around to making a Bohemian Pilsner I suspect it's going to be the best example of the style I've ever had... by far.

When you make a Bohemian Pilsner, it will probably be the best and freshest that you have had even if you've gone to Prague. You're a good brewer and you'll know the age of your beer which will probably be younger/fresher than what you get there. I get your point. Some people might think that European beers are not that great because they have tasted aged examples. You would hope that anyone that considers themselves a "beer enthusiast" would understand that ahead of time.

#32 Brauer

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:46 AM

Rating systems, in general, tend to favor bombast over subtlety, as well. Big things are memorable and easily described and distinguished from other things. It is easy to say, "That this IPA is hoppier than that one, so I'll score it higher." It is too bad that balance isn't well appreciated. However, it is more difficult to comprehend and rate something that is more sublime than something else.



#33 Big Nake

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 05:54 AM

Rating systems, in general, tend to favor bombast over subtlety, as well. Big things are memorable and easily described and distinguished from other things. It is easy to say, "That this IPA is hoppier than that one, so I'll score it higher." It is too bad that balance isn't well appreciated. However, it is more difficult to comprehend and rate something that is more sublime than something else.

Excellent point.

#34 positiveContact

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:07 AM

I really enjoy IPAs, big and small.  But what I've found is they make a big impression but long term they don't score better with me than more delicate beers.  Thinking back - some of the best beers I've had in sort of chronological order:

 

1) hofbrauhaus lager (and the o'fest later)

2) various Czech pils that I can't remember but generally I love these when they are well made.

4) some of the IPAs and pale ales from the flying goose in New London, NH

5) this ayinger dunkel - really top notch - we'll see if it sticks in my brain long term



#35 neddles

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:24 AM

I would bet balance is more appreciated than you guys think. But it shouldn't come as any surprise that in 2015, with all the new flavors, ingredients, and techniques being introduced into todays beers, that people aren't tripping over themselves to wax poetic about styles they can't drink fresh and have been around for decades. I'm sure at some location and at some point in time those styles were new and all the rage as well.




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