12 replies to this topic

[BlKtRe]

So my first batch on the new rig I set for 75% and ended up getting 80%. I did not however check the remaining gravity left in the MT. Yesterday setting was 80% and my preboil volume and gravity was dead on. I checked the remaining sugar in the MT this time and it was 1.030. So I left some goodies. Those of you that recirc the entire mash I'm wondering if this is raising efficiency numbers? What's your take on that? My OG for this beer was 1.075 which also hit perfectly. So I'm wondering if I should raise my efficiency to 85% the next batch.I'm using the same crush and grain lot I've used on my old system. Thoughts...

[SchwanzBrewer]

Most of your brew house efficiency comes from proper conversion. I suspect a RIMS or HERMS helps a little with conversion by way of less stratification in mash temps and maybe a little better mechanical hydration of the starches since the wort is moving through the mash all the time. Once that is 100%, the rest is lautering efficiency and proper measurement for water additions (beginning and sparge).

 

If you hit your numbers then I wouldn't increase the efficiency for recipe calculation. If you try and extract that last bit of 1.030 wort, you increase the volume and dilute the wort a little, which should reduce the OG, but will mess with the EFF a little through the gain in volume. Overall it might be a wash. If the volume and the OG are correct then that is where you want the system to be, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

I would start logging a chart of the following for each batch so you know what to expect when you brew a similar OG beer, brew house efficiency changes, usually decreasing the bigger the beer:

 

Mash volume, grist raito, gravity at mash complete, volume collected from the mash pre sparge (if you batch sparge), preboil volume, preboil gravity, post boil volume, post boil gravity, fermenter volume.

 

With those you can tell your conversion efficiency, then you lautering efficiency if you want. I'd make a chart that showed grist weight vs brewhouse efficiency. Make note if you used unmalted grains or adjuncts that needed help converting.

 

Since you have good controls on temp, gravity and volume will be the hardest thing to measure.

 

Try not to adjust your crush at all so that isn't a variable.

[HVB]

Efficiency .. ERRR

[matt6150]

Most of your brew house efficiency comes from proper conversion. I suspect a RIMS or HERMS helps a little with conversion by way of less stratification in mash temps and maybe a little better mechanical hydration of the starches since the wort is moving through the mash all the time. Once that is 100%, the rest is lautering efficiency and proper measurement for water additions (beginning and sparge).

 

If you hit your numbers then I wouldn't increase the efficiency for recipe calculation. If you try and extract that last bit of 1.030 wort, you increase the volume and dilute the wort a little, which should reduce the OG, but will mess with the EFF a little through the gain in volume. Overall it might be a wash. If the volume and the OG are correct then that is where you want the system to be, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

I would start logging a chart of the following for each batch so you know what to expect when you brew a similar OG beer, brew house efficiency changes, usually decreasing the bigger the beer:

 

Mash volume, grist raito, gravity at mash complete, volume collected from the mash pre sparge (if you batch sparge), preboil volume, preboil gravity, post boil volume, post boil gravity, fermenter volume.

 

With those you can tell your conversion efficiency, then you lautering efficiency if you want. I'd make a chart that showed grist weight vs brewhouse efficiency. Make note if you used unmalted grains or adjuncts that needed help converting.

 

Since you have good controls on temp, gravity and volume will be the hardest thing to measure.

 

Try not to adjust your crush at all so that isn't a variable.

This is basically my thoughts as well. I set my recipes for 80% with my system as well and always hit my number. Also leaving around 1.030 in the MT. I've just been going with it. In fact I have a couple guys in my club that usually come over when I brew and collect it. They either add honey and make a braggot or just boil it down to a gallon or two and see what they get.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Also, I don't have evidence for why, but I've heard Kai talk about that remaining wort as not being very good quality. I've never heard an explanation or clarification on that. Just something to think about.

[BlKtRe]

On my old gasser rig I would get 80% all day with my eyes closed, hit my preboil numbers and have around 1.008-10 left in the tun. So the only difference is a new tun using a manifold like my previous tun used and recirculating the entire mash through the rims. So the continuous recirculating has to be the answer.

Edited by BlKtRe, 30 January 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

On my old gasser rig I would get 80% all day with my eyes closed, hit my preboil numbers and have around 1.008-10 left in the tun. So the only difference is a new tun using a manifold like my previous tun used and recirculating the entire mash through the rims. So the continuous recirculating has to be the answer.

 

Like I said, track your results so you can make new beers easier.

[BlKtRe]

I'm happy my numbers as is. Just surprised I left that much sugar behind.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm happy my numbers as is. Just surprised I left that much sugar behind.

 

What I'm getting at is that your brewhouse efficiency may be dependent on OG. It might not always be 80%.

[BlKtRe]

What I'm getting at is that your brewhouse efficiency may be dependent on OG. It might not always be 80%.

Hopefully it doesn't drift. It was stable on my gasser unless I was doing very large beers. But those numbers went down 5% not up like this 1.075 beer I'm talking about.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Hopefully it doesn't drift. It was stable on my gasser unless I was doing very large beers. But those numbers went down 5% not up like this 1.075 beer I'm talking about.

 

I dunno. I'm not sure why efficiency drifts, but I've not met anyone where it doesn't.

[djinkc]

On my old gasser rig I would get 80% all day with my eyes closed, hit my preboil numbers and have around 1.008-10 left in the tun. So the only difference is a new tun using a manifold like my previous tun used and recirculating the entire mash through the rims. So the continuous recirculating has to be the answer.

I used to recirculate and I think it got me a few more points. Lately I just haven't bothered since it involves moving a lot of hoses around. That and my EHERMS is still in pieces. I need to put it back together with that giveaway SS coil Midwest had on sale for about 3 hours last month.

[BlKtRe]

I thought about adding a HERMS for about 1 second. I'm not a huge HERMS/HLT fan for various reasons. Building a separate Eherms is a good idea which I played with a 16th barrel 120v years ago but never really got it to fit into the gasser rig without creating more stuff to do. That and I got good at hitting mash temps with my cooler and decided to mash out in the kettle doing single infusion. The reason I built the RIMS is because I've got a SS tun now and I wanted basically a heat on demand system. Or as close to it as possible.

Edited by BlKtRe, 30 January 2015 - 02:59 PM.