The "faster" lager method(s)...
#1
Posted 05 February 2015 - 06:19 PM
#2
Posted 05 February 2015 - 06:32 PM
#3
Posted 05 February 2015 - 06:38 PM
I would be interested to know your process as there seems to be some variation on how it goes. I know we have discussed this and I heard the part where Tasty McDole mentioned this on a podcast, etc. but as someone who has done it the standard way for years, I would love to hear your process in detail. I don't want to put pressure on you to post it all but when you have the chance, please just put some bullets up here and highlight the important parts of it. With my lager fridge controlled with a Johnson controller now (and with me working at home a lot) I could conceivably try this on an upcoming beer to see how well the process works. Thanks Chils... I was hoping you would check this thread.I have done this for years. My U Fleku was brewed on 11-28, carbed and drinking on 12-29. Still improved a bit after lagering awhile but I still pulled pints.I almost started a thread about one technique I use to reduce/eliminate acetaldehyde and speed up the process.
#4
Posted 05 February 2015 - 06:47 PM
I use the method for my kolsch, which is close enough. Turns out great beer. I think age does better for big beers where the alcohol flavor is a little to hot or the hops are a bit harsh. Other than clearning, lagering in anything other than a barrel doesn't really impart anything on the beer except mellowing of alcohols and bitterness.
I have done this for years. My U Fleku was brewed on 11-28, carbed and drinking on 12-29. Still improved a bit after lagering awhile but I still pulled pints.I almost started a thread about one technique I use to reduce/eliminate acetaldehyde and speed up the process.
DO IT!
#5
Posted 05 February 2015 - 06:53 PM
Edited by chils, 05 February 2015 - 06:58 PM.
#6
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:09 PM
#7
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:12 PM
I think that's the best reason for raising the ferm temp I've heard. Very good.
#8
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:13 PM
I hit it with 30psi and shut off the gas and let it reach equilibrium then hit it again everytime the CO2 is absorbed for a few days. Carbed in ~3days. It just never tastes right for a couple weeks from day 1 of carbing.What is the "~2 weeks for carbonic bite to settle" part? What is your carb process?
#9
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:14 PM
What is the "~2 weeks for carbonic bite to settle" part? What is your carb process?
I think that's about right. After 2-3 days post carb it's not as noticeable and certainly a better beer, but I'd agree that two weeks and it's gone.
Edited by SchwanzBrewer, 05 February 2015 - 07:15 PM.
#10
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:14 PM
I actually have to heat my chamber to get there. Before I had STCs, I'd heat up a couple of corn bags and throw in there.I think that's the best reason for raising the ferm temp I've heard. Very good.
#11
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:15 PM
Huh. I have heard that people who force carb VERY QUICKLY get carbonic acid/bite but I'm not sure I get that with my 25psi for 48 hour method. Although I should say that I don't immediately put those kegs on tap... they sit in on-deck fridge for awhile before being served.I hit it with 30psi and shut off the gas and let it reach equilibrium then hit it again everytime the CO2 is absorbed for a few days. Carbed in ~3days. It just never tastes right for a couple weeks from day 1 of carbing.
#12
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:16 PM
Huh. I have heard that people who force carb VERY QUICKLY get carbonic acid/bite but I'm not sure I get that with my 25psi for 48 hour method. Although I should say that I don't immediately put those kegs on tap... they sit in on-deck fridge for awhile before being served.
Exactly. I get the carb bite like Chils describes and I use your 48 hour method.
#13
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:22 PM
#14
Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:28 PM
After the krausen drops, the yeast has gone from the exponential growth phase(where off flavors from fermentation are produced, to the stationary phase, (clean up/maturation) phase where temp rise can be beneficial to speed maturation.Gotta have that krausen drop tho'I'll have to watch out for that. I definitely don't 'rush' to get beer to the taps so maybe it's less of an issue based on the schedule I try to follow. Another Q: Chils, you say your lagers ferment out in 3-4 days and then you raise the temp. The link I posted mentioned going about 5 days before raising the temp. I typically get fermentation starting in 24 hours or less and it continues [slowly] and I feel that it's still going after 5 days. I generally do not take gravity readings (which may have to change) but I assume there would be issues raising the temp if there was still some decent activity in the primary.
#15
Posted 06 February 2015 - 06:12 AM
Edited by Village Taphouse, 06 February 2015 - 07:06 AM.
#16
Posted 06 February 2015 - 06:45 AM
Without ever using a 'rigid schedule', I'm not sure I could define a dropped kraeusen. The billowy yeast layer has clamed down and you might even be able to see the liquid underneath? I use plastic primaries so I generally have to pop the top on it to see what's up.
I feel so lost with this Lager yeast (is there Lots of Kraeusen? i thought the yeast worked from the bottom Vs. The top?) I use the bucket method mostly myself. Got your red lager recipe going now mr. Ken...
I plan (per earlier discussion here) 7 days at 48 degrees, and 3 days at 68 , then back to 35 degrees for atleast 14 days. Then i will see what my keg situation(availability is ) and to keg it goes. I waited until i had airlock activity before i dropped it in the lager fridge.
#17
Posted 06 February 2015 - 07:10 AM
Well, the lager yeast is working more "in" the liquid than above it or on top of it, I suppose but a lager fermentation still produces a kraeusen layer at the surface. I wonder if I could ferment in the fridge (my lager primary fridge is set to about 47°) for 5 days or so and then just take it out and leave it on the basement floor which is quite cool this time of year... around 60-65°... and then just let it sit there and finish up. I was under the impression that a lager yeast would start to throw some esters and/or off-flavors if any part of the active fermentation is occurring at higher-than-desired temps. Sounds like that is not the case. Chils, if I were to pop the top on my primary after 5 days in the fridge, what would I want to look for to determine if the kraeusen has dropped?EDIT: I just went down and checked on a gold lager that has been in the fridge since last Thursday (so about 8 days). I popped the top and there is a layer of kraeusen on the top of the beer and I cannot see liquid. My guess is that the vast majority of the fermentation has occurred because this was a good-sized pitch of healthy & active 2124. But I have no idea if this beer would be a candidate for being removed from the fridge now.I feel so lost with this Lager yeast (is there Lots of Kraeusen? i thought the yeast worked from the bottom Vs. The top?) I use the bucket method mostly myself. Got your red lager recipe going now mr. Ken... I plan (per earlier discussion here) 7 days at 48 degrees, and 3 days at 68 , then back to 35 degrees for atleast 14 days. Then i will see what my keg situation(availability is ) and to keg it goes. I waited until i had airlock activity before i dropped it in the lager fridge.
Edited by Village Taphouse, 06 February 2015 - 07:15 AM.
#18
Posted 06 February 2015 - 08:29 AM
I think the key to it all is taking gravity readings. It's annoying for homebrewers because they don't have a convenient way to do it. Pro brewers can use this method easily because they just take a sample off the port without opening things up.
Ken, I recommend getting some conicals so you can do this.
#19
Posted 06 February 2015 - 10:09 AM
#20
Posted 06 February 2015 - 11:15 AM
I think a Lager can benefit from some active fermentation, late, at higher temperatures.
Isn't that the basic idea behind krausening?
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