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The "faster" lager method(s)...


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#21 denny

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

I'm checking in to see if anyone has done this "quick" version of a lager that we have discussed before.  Have any of you lager brewers done one of these 3-4 weeks (grain to glass) lagers by ramping up the temp part of the way through the primary fermentation?  There is a link HERE of a guy who has done it and says that the quality of the beer is very good and does not suffer from the schedule. I'm still doing the standard "long" primary, a bit of secondary and then kegging, carbing and leaving in the fridge for a good 2 months or so. I'm currently drinking a Red Lager I made in September. It's very good and nicely clear but I wonder if I could shorten the schedule. Cheers.

 

I've done it enough to realize there's no reason not to do it.  Works great.  BTW, Marshall will be featured in our next book!



#22 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 11:35 AM

I've done it enough to realize there's no reason not to do it.  Works great.  BTW, Marshall will be featured in our next book!

 

Also, no reason not to use it on ales. I think it's a really damn good way to make beer.



#23 denny

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 12:02 PM

Also, no reason not to use it on ales. I think it's a really damn good way to make beer.

 

Yep.  After a few days at 63 for ales, I start ramping them up.



#24 Big Nake

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:16 PM

I think a Lager can benefit from some active fermentation, late, at higher temperatures. I get Lagers into the glass in ~4 weeksFerment at 48-52 F for ~5 days, when the fermentation is usually pretty slow, move to 60-62 F for a week. Keg and naturally carbonate for ~ 2 weeks, move to the fridge and tap. I'll usually wait a couple days to settle down, then taste it, but it typically takes a week to clear.I don't have problems with diacetyl or acetaldehyde in Lagers, but I have had that problem with Koelsch yeast. I think Lagers are easier (and tastier).

When you say 'naturally carbonate', are you saying to add a priming solution or place the beer into a keg when there is still a little activity left and that extra activity will carb the beer? Sorry if that sounds like a weird question but I'm wondering how to control CO2 volume. Cheers.

#25 Brauer

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:39 PM

Isn't that the basic idea behind krausening?

Yeah. It's also the idea behind the German method of warm maturation, which this is, essentially.

When you say 'naturally carbonate', are you saying to add a priming solution or place the beer into a keg when there is still a little activity left and that extra activity will carb the beer? Sorry if that sounds like a weird question but I'm wondering how to control CO2 volume. Cheers.

Yeah, it's just the way I carbonate. Volumes of CO2 are controlled just like in a bottle, I just make sure I fill to the same level each time, for consistency. I aim for slight undercarbonation, because I don't like over carbed beer, and get it to the final level with force carbing in the fridge.

 

It probably doesn't really matter, it's just a peculiarity of my approach that fits my workflow. I only mention it because it means I keep my beer near 62F for ~3 weeks total and it's possible it may act like krauesening to clean up the beer. From the multiple reports of success with rapid lager fermentation, I wouldn't recommend adding natural carbonation to your process. It's just what I was already doing.



#26 Steve Urquell

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:44 PM

Ken I used to wait until airlock activity slowed down then start raising the temp. Some people say check the gravity and start ramping temp when gravity is ~75% finished. Late in the fermentation, you aren't going to get esters from raising temp. Many ways to skin a cat here.

#27 positiveContact

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:47 PM

Ken I used to wait until airlock activity slowed down then start raising the temp. Some people say check the gravity and start ramping temp when gravity is ~75% finished. Late in the fermentation, you aren't going to get esters from raising temp. Many ways to skin a cat here.

 

that's basically what I do as well for both ales and lagers.  I usually don't like to crack open the fermentor if I can help it.  I usually bring lagers up to the low 60s and ales up to 67-68F.


Edited by Evil_Morty, 06 February 2015 - 05:48 PM.


#28 Big Nake

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:50 PM

So I had this beer in the fridge for 8 days. I was out for most of the day today and when I got back I took it out of the fridge and placed it on the basement floor which will probably keep it in the 60-65° range. Does it matter that I send it to a secondary or are you guys in the habit of going from primary to keg? In some of these descriptions it sounds like you go "fridge for 5 days", then "warmer" and then eventually crash it... does all of that happen while on the yeast?EDIT: The airlock is slowly bubbling. I don't plan to check gravity but I could.

Edited by Village Taphouse, 06 February 2015 - 05:50 PM.


#29 Steve Urquell

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 06:00 PM

So I had this beer in the fridge for 8 days. I was out for most of the day today and when I got back I took it out of the fridge and placed it on the basement floor which will probably keep it in the 60-65° range. Does it matter that I send it to a secondary or are you guys in the habit of going from primary to keg? In some of these descriptions it sounds like you go "fridge for 5 days", then "warmer" and then eventually crash it... does all of that happen while on the yeast?EDIT: The airlock is slowly bubbling. I don't plan to check gravity but I could.

I crash on the yeast to rack clear beer. I sometimes gel in secondary but am going to start racking to keg with gel from now on.

Edited by chils, 06 February 2015 - 06:03 PM.


#30 Big Nake

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 06:30 PM

I crash on the yeast to rack clear beer. I sometimes gel in secondary but am going to start racking to keg with gel from now on.

Okay so for a "for instance": You have a lager in primary that is getting to the point where you think it's in the kill zone but you don't have an empty keg. This may not happen to you but it might happen to me. I assume there is no downside to just leaving it in the primary. The "pale bock" I posted about in the recipe forum actually sat in primary for between 5 and 6 weeks over the holidays and while I was out of the country.

#31 Steve Urquell

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 06:47 PM

I'm not scared of long primaries. I prefer to having it sitting there at 32F if possible though.

#32 Stout_fan

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:53 PM

SOP for me:

Mega starters

Ferment at spec until 2/3 to 3/4 of Final gravity

Then kill refrigeration and let the corny kegs ramp up to room temp.

No Diacetyl, and a clean ferment.

Previously my lagers sucked, now they are spectacular (at least I think so).

I also use the lager yeast in a 25 gal "steam" (forgive me Fritz) starter.




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