14 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm a recognized rank judge, and after this weekend I'll be certified.

 

I just finished judging some belgian strong ales. The two guys at my table with me were quite annoying. They talked just about the beers the whole time without giving me the chance to let things appear to me. Some of it was just flat out wrong, the mead judge called a clove aroma an ester. They tried to influence each other and one gave terrible score sheets. Literally one to two lines per section.

 

We had a flight of 7 beers and two were really good. One was a dubbel the other a BDS. IMO, the dubbel lacked intensity of character to really be a great beer. It was really good, but no more than a 39 or 40. The other two judged it 42 and 43. We're within 5, so fine. The BDS was fantastic. The malt and dark fruit esters popped, dry smooth finish. Really damn good beer.

 

So we're arguing if we're gonna push both and the other two didn't like the dubbel as much as the bds. Both scored over 40. The one judge says, "I haven't had many belgians nor brewed many, It's not really my style." This is the certified judge that is heading the table. The other judge is a mead judge. So we finally agree to push both beers. When the head judge was tallying the score sheets he put the dubbel ahead of the bds even though it scored higher than the dubbel. He says, "I think the dubbel is a better dubbel than the bds is a bds." I just stared at him, shook my head and got up. Both got pushed, fine. I didn't care to tell this idiot it's not his decision. 

 

I don't understand why these guys have egos about judging beer. It's ####ing dumb. You're supposed to be objective and go by the rules, not make arbitrary decisions.

 

I wish there was continued checks and balances in the BJCP. I think at events like this one random scoresheet should be pulled and copied from random ranked judges. Those sheets should be filed and checked periodically to make sure they are filling them out correctly. If the sheets aren't up to par, they should be put on probation. If poor sheets continue their rank should be reduced, or forced to take the tasting exam again if they are really bad. I also think that all judges should have to pass an online bjcp rules test every two years so that they don't make bad assumptions and comps are kept fair.

 

I know this is asking a lot, but I've been judging for 3 years now, this my first as official bjcp, and I've noticed these same behaviors above quite a bit. I hope it isn't prevalent in other comps around the country, but I bet it's the same.

[BlKtRe]

I got tired of competing because of this very thing. It got to expensive for me. I appreciate what you and others are doing to make it better. 

[brewman]

We are judging today as well and some people are like that but er try to put a stop to it. Its also a good idea to separate people like that when you see its going on.

[Hines]

Honestly, that sounds like what I would expect from a beer judging.   I know it probably isn't fair to say that, but just listening to people talk at beer festivals leads me to think this way.

Sounds like you are going about it the right way.  Fight the good fight and maybe your example will inspire others to rethink how they go about judging. 

[djinkc]

I'm done with comps.  The last time I judged the guy I was paired with passed out points like a  perv handing out candy from his van.  Mediocre beers were in the 40's.  Our club comp was this weekend.  I skipped everything just as I did last year.  Just not interested anymore.  I think it's great that people spend the time getting various levels of certification and put in the time running the comps.  It's just not for me anymore.

[positiveContact]

I wish there was continued checks and balances in the BJCP. I think at events like this one random scoresheet should be pulled and copied from random ranked judges. Those sheets should be filed and checked periodically to make sure they are filling them out correctly. If the sheets aren't up to par, they should be put on probation. If poor sheets continue their rank should be reduced, or forced to take the tasting exam again if they are really bad. I also think that all judges should have to pass an online bjcp rules test every two years so that they don't make bad assumptions and comps are kept fair.

 

Is it hard to get enough qualified judges for events?  That could be the answer to the question of why you are seeing the things you saw and why they wouldn't enact the types of checks you are talking about.

[Big Nake]

Rich, as mentioned by others... all of what you described sounds dreadful to me. There are parts of this hobby I enjoy and parts that just don't sound like very much fun to me. Judging beers and having them judged just sounds like a piece of this hobby that I want nothing to do with, especially when I hear it described like you just did (and others have as well). The fact that people are walking around with egos about it makes it even worse. I also have to add that I would make a terrible judge because there are probably too many styles I don't care for. That doesn't mean I couldn't judge them but in this case, I would have tasted the dubbel and the BDS and scored them both a ZERO... Sorry, tastes like ass mixed with a complex, bubble-gummy, barnyard-like horse blanket all wrapped up in a big pile of puke! Also as mentioned by DJ, I have respect for those who do this and who work to improve our hobby.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Don't get me me wrong guys, there's a lot of good judges. The head judge at my table tested in the same day I did. We scored about the same, he just had points. The other guy is a mead judge, but I don't understand why he doesn't fill out his sheets better.

 

I love the competitions. They are fun to enter and earn medals at, fun to judge, and fun events all around. I take beer very seriously and competition and bjcp has made me a better brewer. It constantly challenges me to create new beers and perfect them so that not only do I enjoy them, but I can give them to anyone and they'll be wowed by how well crafted and tasty the beer is. Sometimes that's a judge. Sometimes that's a friend and neighbor. The feedback and delight in their faces makes me happy. I share over 90% of the beer I brew. 

 

Pretty much everyone in my club takes judging seriously and that makes me really proud. We've gone from zero bjcp judges to 3 certified in one year and 4 more testing this year. This is with only about 30-40 active members. The women especially have got on board and are participating and several of them have unbelievable palates. Makes me jealous.

 

We will have about 30-40 judges locally in the next year in total. 

 

I'm probably not going to go for national/master for a few years or so, but not anytime soon. I have too many projects right now to dive deep into the bjcp organization other than judging, but I might pass along some ideas and see if they stick.

[Big Nake]

I enjoy brewing the beer and I certainly enjoy drinking the beer. I enjoy getting together with other homebrewers and discussing beer and brewing. Some of those people are just like me... beerheads. Others are more geared towards the science of it which is good news for the rest of us because as homebrewers, we realize that we don't have formal training and a lot of what we follow is from other homebrewers, forums, books, etc. We don't always know what is truthful and what is not because doing various testing on process and technique is time-consuming and tedious so we have to look to people who will put in that time (Denny, AJ DeLange, Kai) and guys like you are the same way. If I brought a subpar beer to a homebrew gathering, some people might say it's "funky" while others will try to describe it more carefully but you might nail the flaw because of what you're doing. I wouldn't want to do it and I don't have the desire to do it... but I'm glad there are people like you who do it. Cheers.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I push 3 beers unless it's a big flight and any of my top 3 are in the mid 20's. I've done more that a few mini-bos where first, second and third came from one group. If that group would have only passed 2, then someone who deserved a medal would have lost out.

Edited by ChicagoWaterGuy, 23 February 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

The mini BOS's were 9-11 beers each time. The judges were having a hard time figuring out which was best. So i think that quite possibly the top 6 or so from the mini BOS flights getting a medal was a crap shoot. We tried not to push anything that wasn't obviously a great beer. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

Going back at it tomorrow. Judging two flights. This will give me 6.5 judging points and with my test score I'll be a Certified rank.

[Big Nake]

Going back at it tomorrow. Judging two flights. This will give me 6.5 judging points and with my test score I'll be a Certified rank.

Congrats to you. Take it seriously but take those around you less seriously. Rise above the egos and all of that and just be Rich. Oh and have fun with it. If you're not smiling for most of it... well, you should be smiling for most of it.

[brewman]

Just did a flight of Scottish Irish, bad beer is rough on the bowels.

Edited by brewman, 28 February 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

All done! Judged porters and IPA's today. A baltic porter I judged got gold, robust we pushed got bronze. I didn't stick around for the IPA's mini bos. I juded the IPA's with a master judge. I was happy that our palates were about the same and our notes were similar without having to talk it out too much. Todays flights were much easier than last weeks.

 

I wish I could go down to Miami and help Dan judge. I hope Dan decides to take the tasting exam too.